PILs have cancelled carers and are now asking when we can visit

[StillNiceCardigan]

FIL is in his 80s and has Alzheimers and MIL is struggling to manage. We live 4 hours away and visit regularly but can't be there day to day. I'm devastated that they've cancelled the carers they had agreed to after one visit. Help me feel less angry at two 80 somethings who have just made life considerably more difficult for everyone.

The OP and her husband live almost a day's travel away from his parents (an eight hour return journey).
What do you suggest they do?
Their own lives, (work, children, schools etc ) are no less important that those of their relatives who have chosen to dispense with help from outside carers in the expectation that their son and DIL will do it all, no matter how difficult or impractical it is.
I certainly hope I'm more understanding and less selfish when I'm in my 80s.

I think the crisis that caused all the extra visits must have abated (a sudden decline in FILs mental state)

Very possibly, OP, but be prepared for it to deteriorate again if they find out you mean it about not going until 17 August (and if your DH doesn't cave)

They've already learned that they can ride roughshod over whatever was put in place and doubtless see DH's early retirement as a major opportunity, so all you can do is try to persuade DH to be firm

Good luck with it though, because if he's not they'll run you all ragged

Definitely this. Refuse to stand for it.

Can you get power of attorney? Contact social services and get them to do an assessment. Re-instate the carers and tell the carers they are only to deal with you. Total nightmare, I feel your pain.

This is not your problem to fix.

YOU will not be facilitating support. He's on his own until he talks to them properly.

You can not cope with it long term that's why you got the carers in the first place.

Your DH needs to step up and tell them that or he can deal with it alone. And he can risk his marriage for.

This is an untenable situation. At what point WILL they accept carers? That's your issue. If not now, when. It's not going to get better.

You do not understand power of attorney. It does not give you the right to dictate people have carers unless there was a capacity assessment. That is very unlikely if they are living independently.

But carers and (relationships between carers and clients can) be a huge problem in itself.
If funds allow I would try and find a 'five star' or better type of home care service and be prepared to try several different carers or teams of carers out, as someone suggested upthread.
My late Aunt who had MS but no mental impairment sorted out her own live-in care for several years before she died after having had less than ideal experiences of carers arranged by SS. (private organisation linked to and used by SS.)
Luckily she was plugged into a local network who could recommend a cook/housekeeper and someone who slept in/did overnights. This was hugely expensive but she had the funds.
My late DM who had Alzheimers was absolutely vile to her carers when she was allocated them by SS, but said they were unreliable, never on time, only stayed 20 minutes before rushing off and she hardly ever saw the same person twice. It doesn't excuse how she treated them but I'm afraid this can be the reality of basic care these days.
If your PILs have money they should be strongly encouraged to use it to make life as easy as possible for them.

Some carers are awful. I used to be a carer, and there were some individuals that if they have visited me for the first time, I would be refusing any other carers.

There will be more crises, unfortunately. It's inevitable.

Im not saying Op should look after her in laws! I don’t think at all! But visiting is different.
anyway she has clarified that she didn’t mean it

My god the horror of not being "nice". How will the op cope.

I would imagine that poster who used the word ‘callous’ has either been very lucky with her parents, or her parents are still young, or she has absolutely no experience of the reality of an elderly sick parent.

I used to work with a woman and she found out my dad was very unwell, and she said ‘go home immediately and spend every minute with him’ and that was 10 years ago.

She had no idea either, but she does now.

I meant to add, my dad is still alive and well (thank God) but I didn’t take 10 years off work.

Do you know why they cancelled the carers? My Dad had dementia and would get really upset, angry and argumentative when carers came in and that had a massive impact on my mum and the rest of us. Just a thought. It’s so hard, hope you find a solution x

Exactly this.

Reframe it......

Bit late reframing it now. Only one has dementia.

Power of attorney is not appropriate. It sounds like the woman is the carer for her husband, but is struggling to provide the care and needs some help. You need a carer that has experience of and understands dementia. Lots do not.

Place marking as this is a very timely thread for me. Mil fell yesterday and fractured her wrist. She lives alone and now cannot wash, dress, cook even a simple meal or even eat properly with one hand. This has come after years of dashing over every time she has a crisis. Oh, and she won't have carers/strangers in the house. I can see I'm going to have to start saying 'no'.

Hm. And hm and hm again. It is the middle generation who leads the parade, not the eldetly, nor the under 18s. Someone has to learn the basics of life

Does anyone have power of attorney because you bloody need it now.

Call their local social services and explain what's happened. I'm assuming that Altzeimers has been diagnosed, so you're fine. Ram it home that you are four hours away and can't possibly step in. Repeat this. Report this to their GP via email do you have a permanent record.

PILS are being irrational and unreasonable. Do not be guilted into going up unless to get them committed. Otherwise you'll be taking care of them until they die.

The mil has full capacity. You can't just barge in demanding POA, if they are refusing carers I doubt they'll hand over stuff like POA.

The situation needs tact and patience.

The OP will not be fine just because FIL has a diagnosis of Alzheimer’s.

A social worker would need to complete a Mental Capacity Act assessment regarding care and support.

Even if FIL lacks capacity re care and support if he refuses to receive care it can’t be forced on him.
It would need an order from the Court of Protection and this would only be granted if he was at risk if significant harm.

Also, POA can only be applied for whilst the person has capacity and is therefore able to nominate a person to be their POA in the event they lose capacity.
If a person already lacks capacity then a court appointed deputyship can be applied for.

This is a long and costly process, but in the meantime these people still need support.
Hence earlier suggestion of a softly softly approach.

OP, I’m sorry you and your husband are in this position. Unfortunately it takes for an event such as a fall or hospital admission for a couple like your in-laws to realise that they do need support.

Your mum might do better as a carer if more specific support was in place, rather than just generic carers. So an alzheimers group for FIL, a carers group for your mum, some practical help such as a cleaner or gardener.
Someone with alzheimers usually does not react well to change. A carer coming in who may not be skilled with people with dementia, may have genuinely made your mums day much harder. I know my father's dementia deteriorated significantly if he was at all out of his daily routine. New people could significantly worsen his behaviour. My mum was his carer and wanted no carer help because of this. When the dementia becomes more severe, outside carers become inevitable.
Most people being cared for by unpaid carers are cared for by their spouse, who is often equally elderly. So this situation is not uncommon. But sometimes it needs a more individualised approach to support the elderly carer than simply bringing in paid carers.

And it always shocks me on these threads how many people want to treat elderly adults like children. For example wanting to force adults whose cognitive function is fine to have daily carers. Or wanting to force them into a care home. Elderly people as long as they have capacity should be making their own decisions.

Edit: your mum was happy to care for your dad apparently?