Elderly mother and conflict with siblings

[BlueLegume]

Over the past few years I had to make a decision to find full time nursing care for my DF. This advice came from his consultant. Unfortunately one of my siblings and DM didn’t like the advice so set about making a few, but rather pointless adaptations to our parents home. I live overseas but do try to return regularly and make an effort to keep communication open. This thread isn’t about DF. He is now safe and in an environment able to meet his needs very close to our mother’s house so she visit easily. My mother is and always has been an incredibly difficult person, forever. I do not wish to ‘out’ myself but as long as I can remember she is awkward, unsympathetic and outright contrary about things. Sadly it appears one of my siblings sees her through rose tinted glasses and is determined she has something wrong with her. She is mid 80s but all I and my other sibling see is Mum being Mum. Unfortunately our brother does not see this. She has now alienated herself from everyone. There is not a neighbour she hasn’t be incredibly rude to. She has alienated all family members, who all tried to help as they liked our DF. We have arranged for a cleaner and a gardener. She will not allow them access. We arranged a private consultation with a geriatric specialist who was fantastic- she aced the memory test but took none of the advice he gave her. It feels like she only wants us as her middle aged children to drop everything and be with her. My sister and I are both retired, she lives an hour away I am overseas but come back to England regularly. Our brother thinks we do not do enough and that we should make our parents more of a priority. He seems oblivious to the fact my sister and I took the initiative and listened to hospital staff that Dad needed full nursing care, we found the home, sorted the room etc, made sure the staff had a life history for Dad and did the paperwork. He repeatedly ignored anything such as emails from the home asking for paperwork to be done. He continues to say Mum is ‘ill’. She may well be sad about the situation but both of our parents repeatedly ignored suggestions to help them selves in later life. Well done for getting so far - feel free to ask what I am actually asking! It feels like he has literally just opened his eyes to our mothers personality. In a nutshell she would and always has been incredibly defiant. Other than move in with her my sister and I are really not sure what to do as she will not help herself or allow us to arrange help. Our brother just criticises everything we do yet turns up when it suits him, not Mum, faffs about and leaves. Thanks for listening that feels abit better.

My dh is in a similar position at the moment his mum is currently living with her daughter about 30 miles away from us . It’s all gone wrong there she’s been there 6 years now and wants to move back locally. My dh has 3 retired sisters and a retired brother my dh was the last born and only 45 . My mother in laws sister wants the siblings to discuss what will happen if she moves back care needs and stuff she’s 86 .
but none of the siblings are will do do a meeting they don’t want to have to deal with it . My dh is currently waiting for a hip replacement and spends most days off his feet . He said yesterday that he will do whatever he can but they will need to help .

a elderly lady I take shopping every week says it always get left to one to do . She looked after her father for 11 years till he nearly burnt the house down and went into a care home . Her siblings where no where to be since .

i think like others have said state what you can do and let the other take on the rest .
if your brother is so good let him do it And if your living abroad it not like you can be there a lot

sal

@Sadless again thank you. I can actually do quite a lot when I am at our house overseas. I can certainly help our mother with food orders which she is actually ok with but our brother has sort of waded in with what my sister describes as help but not help. By this she means he sees help as turning up but not actually addressing our mother’s concerns. For example she will say an appliance isn’t working which she did when I came over last year. I demonstrated it was working by using it. She had apparently been telling our brother for 10 weeks but he had done nothing to reassure her. My sister is incredibly kind despite a very fraught relationship with our mother. Last winter she helped Mum organise her incredibly full freezer and made food suitable for one, listing all the meals and with instructions as to how to prepare them - really clearly. Mum threw all the food away. It is all so attention seeking and always has been. We had to laugh when our brother addressed what is clearly a hoarding issue with us. My sister and I have 6 children between us all grown up now - when they were little they used to talk about shopping at grandmas shop…..they meant her basement…..it is literally like a shop and always has been. Quite how our brother managed to be so unaware of this is quite amusing…..but now he sees it.🙄

If your DM won’t accept help/carers, there’s not a lot you can do, especially from a distance. As a pp said, it’s hard to accept, but sometimes, if the person is still deemed to have capacity, you just have to let it go and wait for some sort of crisis - which may of course not happen. Refusal of practical help, carers coming in, is actually not uncommon.

@GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER thanks - its a fine line I appreciate we should not foist help onto her but practically cannot do all the jobs for her such as cleaning gardening etc. We simply cannot do it without it impacting on our own lives and families. My sister did raise a good point which is that our brother seems to assume that because we are both retired we have loads of free time. We don’t if anything we are both busier than ever. There is an also an assumption by our mother that we have nothing to do all day when in fact we have very busy lives.

I’m afraid that assumption is all too common - old people can become extremely selfish and expect adult dcs to run around them non stop. I’m so sorry you’re going through this - we had similar with a relative of dh who could well afford to pay for help but absolutely hated shelling out for anything.

Easy for me to say, I know, but in your place I’d say, ‘I’m sorry, but we just don’t have the time or energy for all this. If you won’t accept help coming in, that’s up to you, but we really can’t do it any more.’

@GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER very sound advice. Dad is safe and in a good place albeit unwell and clearly not long left, what is sad is he seems secondary in all this as our mother has made it all about herself and literally become helpless. It is so difficult as our brother has suddenly developed this approach which makes it look like he is caring but actually he is not doing much at all - except point out to my sister and I that we don’t care. We do care BUT and it is a big BUT we have also had to deal with the life admin around a clearly very unwell father for a long time, a stubborn mother who wouldn’t take on board the advice of medical professionals. I would also add my sister took the brunt of my mother’s ’mid life crisis’ during possibly our mother’s menopause years as I was out of the country. The other thing is my brother is oblivious to the fact all our mother does is bad mouth him to us. She resents his turning up when it suits him, she doesn’t like the food he buys her. What she won’t see is that we can’t just visit her to keep her company we have to crack on with loads of jobs when we are there. Additionally the house needs loads doing to it but Mum and Dad have not maintained it for some time. All of this was inevitable.

If she's too proud and cantankerous to accept hired help then you have to let her fail. It's hard to watch but be as stubborn as she is. Do any of you have POA? Any moaning from your DB ask him to solve the issue as he's closest. Just because you and your sister are female doesn't mean you should give up your lives to care for her. Especially as it sounds like she'd fall out with you as "carers" too!

I might be tempted to tell him she badmouths him - perhaps in a more gentle way -him believing he is doing a lot and carrying the burden on his shoulders alone would likely stop if he knew she was complaining about him.

@Slugsandsnailsresidehere Yes we have POA although I am not sure it was worth the effort TBH. We have literally suggested everything and she has said no. When Dad was hospitalised she was so rude to the staff my sister and I had to apologise and on one ward the doctor refused to engage with her after she wrote a venomous email to the director of the hospital criticising a clearly very stressed staff member. Nothing is ever right. Brother seems to think she has changed because she is ‘ill’. It is so difficult as we do not want conflict but the reality is she is just Mum and has always been like this. It is like he doesn’t want to see it now it is impacting on him.

@Tinkerbot I have started to gently tell him she is playing us all off for the attention - we are rarely all there at the same time. My sister and I sorted out the nursing home together. We tried to involve DB but he just left us to it, he didn’t really seem bothered about it. We have tried to ask to get together face to face with him but he just ignores our requests. Sister and I do think he is not coping with the situation so is lashing out, particularly at me. What he does not seem to appreciate is we have to cope in order to ensure Dad was found a safe place. Thanks to everyone it has felt reassuring we are not out of order in how we have dealt with things.

For example she will say an appliance isn’t working which she did when I came over last year. I demonstrated it was working by using it. She had apparently been telling our brother for 10 weeks but he had done nothing to reassure her.

@BlueLegume only you will know whether this is new behaviour or not, but my mothers cognitive decline started in hindsight when I started getting a litany of complaints that the television, the microwave, the central heating etc weren’t working. They were, she just lost the ability to work them. She could have passed the memory tests at that stage too. Now she can’t even change the channel on her tv any more.

It’s obviously trickier to manage if she’s always been a difficult character, but that doesn’t mean she isn’t developing health issues of her own. As frustrating as it is, you do need to listen to your brother and fully understand what he means when he says she isn’t well. And between you and your sister pick apart what he says to see what is new.

@funnelfan very sound advice and something we are hoping to do soon. Both my sister and I can see that what we used to perhaps roll our eyes at at is now manifesting itself as problematic. In fairness to Mum she asked my sister to write some step by step instructions for an appliance she was a little unfamiliar with. Sis did so and mum has managed it really well even correcting me about using it - I can see this is a confidence thing so am sympathetic to this. Also encouraging her to see being able to follow instructions as a brilliant step forward. Lots of great thoughts on here and I am grateful to everyone being objective and proffering sensible angles to come at it again.

I think you need to listen to the emotions not the facts.

You and your sister clearly do plenty, practically, and are thoroughly available for actual need. You obviously understand your mother very well, too.

This isn't an actual need, it's an emotional need from your brother. He's managed to overlook all the actual needs, and has finally realised things are changing. He's desperately trying to get you to fix it and make his life easy again.

I'd suggest two things-
For him- letting him vent, agreeing with him about how hard and worrying it all is, and checking whether he has a specific thing that needs addressing which you could help with if necessary- like her online shop. Thank him for the time he spends with her so he knows you know he does stuff.

For you- accept that he's a bit useless and will continue to be so. He's another thing to manage, not a fellow problem solver. That won't change. Expecting better will leave you cross and frustrated.

I'm going to work like a dog when I see DM this weekend, all on jobs other people could do better. But they won't. Their communication skills, inability to tolerate/ work around my mother's nonsense means that yet again I'll be doing the donkey work.

But a happier mother means an easier life, so I do it anyway. Not that she's happy. Just marginally less miserable 🤣

@AGlinnerOfHope oh dear. So sorry to hear that you’re doing so much with little change - you sound amazing. My sister is particularly upset by things as she has genuinely done loads over the years to support our mother emotionally. I am cautious that living overseas and only being physically present for short periods of time that I don’t step on anyone’s toes who sees me having an easy ride. My brother especially as he does live the closest of the 3 of us. We also get it that the mother daughter dynamic is different to the mother son, baby of the family dynamic. Hopefully we can consider some new approaches in a dignified manner to move the situation in a better direction. In all of this we also have a Dad who is close to the end of his life so it is a perfect storm for conflict between 3 very different personalities. Try not to let yourself be too exhausted on the weekend…….and maybe take some of your own sound advice.

I'm not sure that the OP and her sister have the wherewithal to take on the emotional needs of their brother as well as everything else. He's a grown man who can sort his own life out. I don't think offering to take some of the pressure off him is a good idea either. He's already determined to offload everything he doesn't want to do onto his siblings anyway, despite one of them living overseas.

@haddockfortea thanks. I’m just grateful for everyone having the time and patience to read the thread. We definitely need a sensible conversation. I do let my brother vent. He definitely did so recently and I think and hope I remained dignified and let him let rip. I’m aware that might sound soft but I hoped it might make him feel better and wanted to avoid him doing it to my sister.

Absolutely not! Definitely not do anything for him, or anything extra. But you can’t make other people be different all you can do is manage your own behaviour and emotions.

That has a much better outcome than continuing to fight with someone who’s not likely to change.

Oh yes, all this. I think the only way is to maintain sanity is have firm boundaries with regards to your mother, you can only do what you can do. Your brothers opinions and emotional needs don’t supersede yours or your sisters (even if your mother historically and currently fed into this!)

If your brother thinks your Mum isn’t well can’t he make an appointment and take her to the doctor himself?

@Loulouloops Thanks for the response. We have been engaged with the GP and in total fairness it was our brother who took her initially. The snag as my sister and I see it is off the back of an appointment last year lots of things were put in front of Mum. Medication was prescribed - she did’t like it said it didn’t work. Counselling type talking therapy was offered with an appointment made. She refused to engage saying it was silly. A lady from the local council was assigned to Mum to try and give her some chance to do things without it being us. Mum refused to engage. My sister and I got a referral to a consultant for older people - the wait for the appointment was too long so we got a private referral where the gentleman we saw was really lovely and took his time engaging with Mum. He explained now Dad was in a secure place being looked after she could go back and do things that gave her some pleasure. He was really sensible. Mum refused to engage in any of the ideas he put forward other than a change the medication. Being overseas for much of the time I am wary of overstepping the mark. My sister tells me our brother has taken her back to the GP again and that they are ‘hoping to go back to the beginning’. As I understand my brother is hoping therapy might be offered again. All of this is great and it is so heartening to know that help does exist. Unfortunately if Mum will not engage, as she doesn’t seem to I can only see it failing again.

rea appreciate how thoughtful and kind your responses have been. One thing I’ve not really thought about out loud is that Mum has always been very controlling with things having to be on her terms. Perhaps it’s worth considering she has little control over things now so is using us 3 - by that I mean refusing external assistance so we keep doing things. Once you are there or on the phone it’s impossible to simply leave. She just keeps going with various issues of things not being right so it’s a circle of things needing looking at. When actually they don’t but it means she has one of us there.

Is it the first time your DM has lived on her own as an adult? DAunt got like this as she was frightened and nervous of trying to do or arrange things on her own and articulated that by being difficult and refusing to engage with any change whilst she could cry and manipulate us into doing everything for her. I also think being on her own and how she wasnt coping with issues that she would have asked her DH to sort out as she could no longer do so, highlighted to us the start of her dementia. In the end a fall crisis made her see that she needed more physical support at home than we were able to supply.

@Slugsandsnailsresidehere very apt point. She has never ever lived alone and it’s becoming apparent that needs addressing.

This is such an interesting and, I think, compassionate discussion of families and their dynamics as people age.
I think it's particularly difficult with people who were already a bit of a handful, and hard to tell what are early dementia behaviours and what is just their personality.

@BlueLegume somewhere on this board there was a podcast recommended, which I found very useful.

https://open.spotify.com/episode/0RGM9yfSgTN20yDJ2M6rUR?si=yzXH2XQQQ3O0TNyF1VxIxg

And there is another one about dementia https://open.spotify.com/episode/4WSYUXFIMq1tKb34NXqgjd?si=w9qU0gK9T8SFN6xf4l03ug

You might find the useful ( I think also on bbc sounds)

If you can't open the links, the podcast is called Conversations With Annalisa Barbieri