Cleaning and personal hygiene

[DoggerFisher]

TL:DR Is it normal for elderly people to let hygiene slip?

I'm not obsessive about cleaning, by any means; I think there are far more fun things to do, but equally I try to maintain some basic standards of hygiene. My dad is in his late eighties and has lived alone for around six years, since mum went into a home and subsequently died. He is of the generation where everything inside the home was the woman's job, so he's actually coped well with learning to cook, do the laundry etc. and even looks things up on YouTube sometimes. The issue is that he'll happily spend hours gardening, and just recently borrowed my jet washer to clean the patio, but his house is looking....grubby.

It's not Kim and Aggie territory - I mean things such as:

• Kitchen surfaces always covered in food spills and crumbs (I've taught him several times how to clear them & clean periodically)
• Urine stains all over toilet (boak)
• Every surface having multiple framed photos / ornaments, which he never dusts
• Hand rail at side of stairs filthy & unwashed
• Crumbs and other bits all over the floors. (I swear to God, this is his superpower; he is the Incredible Crumb Making Man.)

He used to walk round very scruffily dressed until my niece and I arranged to take him clothes shopping, whereupon he found lots of lovely clothes in his wardrobe that he hadn't been wearing. I stayed overnight recently and discovered that there was no toothpaste in the house, and he hadn't cleaned his teeth for around a week. This particularly annoyed me as he had heart surgery a few years back, and his teeth were put in order beforehand so that there was no opportunity for bacteria from them to cause health problems.

He won't have a cleaner (I've asked), and if I do the cleaning he stands watching me, waving little T Rex arms in the way that men do, and saying, "I did that last week, Dogger," even though it's blindingly obvious that whatever it is hasn't been touched in months. I think he feels embarrassed when he sees me cleaning for him, but won't keep on top of things himself. I've tried a list of tasks for him, as it's a tiny house and a couple of hours' cleaning every week would be enough.

Do I just accept that he's happy to live in a grubby house and let his teeth decay? Do I go round every so often and do a deep clean whilst he faffs and annoys me? Or do I have a serious conversation about how things might change? If you've experienced this already (and got to the end of this post!), I'd be grateful for your advice.

It sounds like he needs a cleaner, and he might be more open to that if you spell out that they will only do specific areas (eg kitchen, bathroom, hall and stairs). Many people don't like the idea of someone poking around the house, but will accept certain spaces. Also older people may be cautious of being preyed on, and they are not wrong about that, so you being involved in hiring a cleaner might make him more willing.

@Alphabet1spaghetti2 Yes it is ALWAYS quicker to do it myself, and I used to when I was young and fit! It's the slight raised eyebrow at being asked to do (to him) unnecessary cleaning. He will do it, but just to humour me. TBF we never washed our cars much, so agree on some things!

Also, I think some men must see things their wives used to do as a bit unnecessary. FIL died age 94 after seven years alone. He stopped excessive cleaning and for some reason stopped sending DGC Easter egg money. He obviously saw it as from her, not him, therefore it was a chore he could give up. He treated himself to a very nice new car once he could suit himself! But the house was not of interest to him.

@TeaAndStrumpets thats a very good point - things being of interest. Dh will do diy and do it right first time, me? I’m more of a get it done quick not necessarily using the proper equipment, as although I love the results, I hate and have zero interest in the process - which is the bit that interests Dh. Guess we just have to accept that we compliment each others interests. 🤔🤣

Thank you so much to everyone who has taken the trouble to post and share their experiences. I can see that I am not alone here! @KnottyKnitting your dad sounds very similar indeed to mine. To answer some specific points:

@LipstickLil there's no cognitive decline; he's just always been a bit of a soap dodger . Mum would never let him get contact lenses because she said he would end up with an eye infection.
@ISeriouslyDoubtIt I like you approach of pointing out that he's being unfair to me by refusing to get a cleaner, and subjecting me to an additional burden. I live 30 miles away and work FT in a stressful job, so I really don't want to spend my weekends cleaning for him when he can perfectly well afford a cleaner. @TheYearOfSmallThings I have found a company local to him with excellent Trustpilot reviews, so when I broach this I think I'll show him the website and say I'll take the lead in arranging everything.

To everyone who advised to let the dust go - you are right. I see his clutter as dust-collecting crap, but he views it as valuable memories of his life. I do think there's an unconscious element of gendered expectations here - when he was talking about his second cataract surgery, he was clearly assuming that I'd book time off work to take him for that, too. Err, no - you have a son, granddaughter, friend and neighbour who would each be happy to take you next time, dad.

I realise I'm going to have to tackle this sooner rather than later. That in itself is helpful.

That sounds good OP - hopefully he will accept it, if only to placate you, and then come to appreciate the place being cleaner.

If I were in my late 80s no way would I be spending the time when I felt up to activity doing something as tedious as cleaning if I could do something I enjoyed instead. The cleaning is your priority, not his. He's clearly not that bothered about it being grimy and would prefer to spend what remains of his life doing something he enjoys.

And there is nothing wrong with that.

@StiffyByngsDogBartholomew that's a very fair point you make, and I fully acknowledge it.

I would, however, like to ensure that his house is clean enough to keep him healthy. I'm concerned about food poisoning from the unwiped counters, and d&v from the toilet which had dried sh!t around the flush handle before I cleaned it.

I agree OP.
I don't think it's dignified to get into such a state.
I am thinking of getting a friend to take my relative out so I can vacuum.

My parents, rich as Croesus, refused to get a cleaner. They went from having a ridiculously clean home, to one that was anything but (they were about 90 by this stage so possibly didn’t see the dust etc). They also thought a daily wash and just a weekly bath or shower was sufficient, as though it was war time. Ditto wearing clothes for a few days rather than once.

My h and I cleaned every weekend and mowed the lawns etc, but it was with a modicum of resentment as they had more money than they knew what to do with.

Yeah it’s hard to stay on top of the cleaning and hygiene in your 80s.

He may also be suffering loneliness and depression as a fairly recent widower which would compound the issue. Especially since you said his wife used to do the cleaning so every time he cleans, he is reminded of her absence and no doubt the trauma of her going into a home and dying before him. The lack of self care is concerning.

I doubt he wants to live in a dirty home or wants to have poor hygiene.

The garden may be the one place he can pretend his wife is still alive, an empty house when you have lost your wife/husband isn’t a place to spend time in.

In order to control the shit in the bathroom and dirty kitchen counters, I’d give him a few packs of antibac wipes. You don’t need more than the one item (ie no sprays, cloths etc)if you use wipes and you can just stick them in the bin afterwards. It might help him keep it a little bit cleaner with almost no effort.

Partly eyesight, they just don't see the dirt, stains etc. Partly, with mine anyway, fewer 'anchor' points each week so they remember they did clean but fail to realise how long ago that was, to them they've done it why would it need doing again so soon.

Dust builds up gradually and living there all the time he won't see a dramatic difference.

Is he taller than you? You'll see things he doesn't because of the height difference.

Less energy. He'll do the things he wants to do but there isn't much spare energy for anything else. Bearing in mind they can get to the point when having a shower or bath is too much effort.

Don't know how far he got with looking into getting a cleaner, but price reference points are really adrift for one of mine (see also cost of buying a hot drink in a cafe!). Bearing in mind a cleaner where I live is at least £20 an hour. Mine still thinks in terms of about £5 an hour, so assigns £20 a month. An hour's cleaning a month doesn't achieve much...

Eyesight, poor mobility, lack of energy. Being elderly happens to most of us, so understanding is better than condemnation.

Doesn’t look as if lack of cleaning has yet affected his health. OP doesn’t mention his frequent bouts of food poisoning and d&v.

Provided a good daily wash is happening, a weekly bath or shower is fine. And while you should change underclothes daily, there’s no need to wash everything else daily.

My father has had 3 showers in the last 4 years. He’s perfectly clean and doesn’t smell. Showers aren’t fun when you get older. You can no longer nip quickly through that cold bit at the edge of the spray.

My DM's house is similar. I've lost count of the amount of times I've cleaned it. She won't have a cleaner, too frivolous apparently and when I suggested it she accused me of spending all her money. I refuse to do it any more. It's a health hazard, but if she wants to live like that, then so be it. I just avoid eating or drinking anything while I'm there.

My mother kept the house immaculate when younger, now it’s pretty much the same as your dad’s house OP. Eyesight and dementia and a huge dollop of the “sod it”s.

The carers keep on top of her personal hygiene and one does a bit of extra cleaning every other week. Occasionally I’ll run the hoover round if she’s knocked over her biscuit tin again, and wipe down the inside of the microwave to clean up the spatters but otherwise I’m nearly as good as mum at ignoring the grime. It’s just not important in the big scheme of things. The house doesn’t smell, that’s my standard for action.

Neither unwashed surfaces or dried poo on the flush are likely to lead to any d&v. He's more likely to get it from a poorly reheated meal.

@Cherryon you make some sensitive points there about grieving, and I'll bear them in mind.
@EmotionalBlackmail I'm sure you are right that dad will be shocked if / when he finds out what a cleaner costs! Last summer, I persuaded him that his sitting room carpet & sofa needed cleaning, and he thought it would be a enjoyable task for me to do with a hired machine, whilst saving him a few bob on getting a commercial company in. (I refused.) He's not short of money, but like many old people is reluctant to spend it on increasing his quality of life.

Once again, thank you to those who have contributed. My original plan was to wait until he'd had both cataracts done, in the hope that improved eyesight would lead to improved hygiene and cleaning. I think now that that was wildly optimistic, so my brother and I are going to have another attempt at persuading him to get a cleaner. We're going to frame it as, "accepting help will mean, paradoxically, that you can live independently in your own home for longer." Wish us luck!

I forgot to say that after we'd got a carpet cleaning company in he raved about how wonderful they were and how reasonable the cost. Must remind him of that re. getting a cleaner.

It isn't that easy to 'get a cleaner', especially if the house is filthy. I have a friend in his 80's, he's had a stroke and not very mobile, cleaning is beyond him. His house is so filthy that it's a health hazard - I mean absolutely disgusting. So bad that he locks his bedroom door so that nobody will inadvertently wander in there. I have no idea when he last changed his sheets - it must be over a year ago. I'm not related and only a tangential friend (I visit him once a fortnight), so don't have any power to do anything (and I'm certainly not going to clean for him), but I advised him to get a cleaner. People say they will come and never do or come once and never come back because it's so disgusting. So it's just going to get worse, and I worry that he might get food poisoning because his cooking is very lackadaisical. Won't even countenance going into sheltered housing, even though he can't leave the house unaided. What do you do?

@Vroomfondleswaistcoat my dad's house isn't as bad as the one you describe, thank God. I do clean it periodically myself, but I literally cannot face another round of scrubbing his kitchen counters whilst he watches and pretends I haven't demonstrated this repeatedly before. And the crumbs! I wouldn't have thought it was possible for one man to generate so many fucking crumbs! I keep fantasising about doing a Stacey Solomon style declutter of his kitchen - laying everything out on the grass and asking, "Do you need this Skippy the Bush Kangaroo melamine plate that's at least fifty years old? What about the Tupperware party food holder for all the parties you never have? Can you live without all of these glasses, bearing in mind that you don't drink alcohol?" (And breathe...)

I've found a company local to him that does end of tenancy cleans, which I think is what is needed. Then they could do two or three hours a week to keep things in order. All my brother and I need to do now is persuade him, which PPs say won't be easy.

I'd just like to mention eyesight. Mine got much worse in my late 40's and as soon as I was prescribed glasses over and above my readers, I could see how grubby some parts of my house were. Where I'd missed things. Particularly cobwebs and dust on picture frames. I was disgusted at myself 😆. I genuinely hadn't noticed and thought everything was spotless! It may be that failing eyesight means he's just not seeing how grubby things are.

@TheFormidableMrsC - yes, I realised it may be eyesight related. However, he's just had cataract surgery, so his eyesight will shortly be better than mine. (I'm hoping that he'll at least stop looking like Sir Les Patterson, with the food stains on his clothes.) I don't think this will make any difference to his willingness to clean, though. It's a mixture of age, mum having always done it, and can't-be-arsedness. One angle I considered was asking him to pay for a cleaner for my house, so that I have time to drive over and clean his. That may help him to realise how ridiculous he is being!

I worked in elderly care and it is very common. Failing eyesight, poor diet, dehydration, poor energy levels, unwillingness to admit to not being able to manage. The only remotely tidy/clean homes I went into had cleaners! When my Dad started to slide into apathy about his flat, I ended up spending 4 hours there every Sunday to keep on top of it and by the time he became terminally ill and I was adding his personal care/shopping/life admin out, I was utterly wrung out. I already have a cleaner myself and will never let my own home become a burden to my DC.