Care Homes - what happens when the money runs out?

[DatingDinosaur]

Just that really.

If you're self-funding your care home fees (because you're not eligible for subsidy for some/all of the fees), what happens when the funds are gone? Can you stay at the same care home but have it paid for by the state (after assessment I'm assuming) or do you have to move?

This is in England, if that makes a difference.

I’d have a read of the contract. When a relative went in we were told that if they self funded for at least three years then they’d get to stay at LA rates. They’d of had to move room and give up the lovely sea view and move into smallest/ cheapest room available though.

It depends on how much it exceeds the local authority budget, and how much financial trouble the local authority is in.

Best case, the local authority cover it. Worst case, the resident has to move somewhere less costly.

I think it depends on how much the local authority will pay vs the cost of their existing care home.
If the current home accepts LA funding, I think they can stay but if the fees at the current home are more than the allowance you would either need to pay to top up or move them somewhere cheaper.
Ideally ask the question/check the t&cs before the situation arises so that you’re prepared.

Ahh, thank you all for your replies. She currently lives 'independently' in her own home, not a care home but has expressed the desire to "look into" moving into a residential/care home (she's got her eye on a couple that have eye-wateringly expensive price tags!). She's struggling now, even with family helping and carers.

Her savings means she would be not eligible for LA funding/subsidy. She is aware of this and already fretting about what happens after her money runs out! Her biggest fear is that she'd have to up sticks again and go "where she's put" once her savings run out.

From what you're all saying, I'll need to make enquiries at the care homes she's mentioned to see what their policy is as there's no 'one size fits all' answer.

It might also be worth having a look at an annuity @DatingDinosaur

This is essentially an insurance policy that you buy to pay out a certain amount per month. You would most likely need the value of her home to buy it but it gives you peace of mind (assuming she owns her home).

There are various types of annuity. The specific version for this scenario would be an immediate needs annuity: www.unbiased.co.uk/discover/pensions-retirement/planning-for-retirement/what-is-an-immediate-needs-annuity-how-does-it-work

Or the family can top up the difference to avoid the resident having to move..

It depends, the state won’t fund a private one, you may get benefits but still have to top up and it can be hundreds per week (to top up).

You are better off researching. Money doesn’t always mean better care. I’m talking care not surroundings.

https://www.cqc.org.uk/care-services/find-care-home

My aunt went to a state funded care home, she worked all her life from age 15 but rented and rent was expensive, she had very little left. I work for a LA and have friends in adult SS (different LA) and that’s where the advice came from to research myself).
We opted for a very old home, it was small, very basic, no fancy furnishings, but the staff were amazing, it was spotlessly clean, the food was lovely, the residents socialised.

My aunt was always clean, well fed and very happy.

The state does, almost all care homes are private, there are very few council-run homes left and many counties will have none at all.

The council contracts the private home to provide a certain number of beds at a reduced rate to state funded residents. Not all homes will do this. Sometimes those rooms may be smaller, view of the bins etc. The care, food and activities are the same. That may not matter if your relative is no longer aware of their surroundings. Often the care can be better in the less plush homes.

There is no obligation to 'top up' someone's fees but the councils may imply the person would have to move if you don't or imply it's essential. It isn't.

Another thing to take into consideration is whether social services assess her as needing residential care when shes at the point of run unit out of funds. They will only fund her care if she needs it from their POV.

Not true in this day and age. I work in social care commissioning and the LA I work for has no LA run care homes - we sold them all about 20 years ago.

We buy beds in privately run care homes but at a lower price than self funders will pay. For self funders, homes usually ask for proof that you've got 3 years worth of fees available to pay. If you own your own home then you usually have. Most people don't last for longer than 3 years but, if you do, it's at the homes discretion if you can stay at the LA rate.

Our advice to anyone thinking of self funding their care home place is to consult with a financial advisor before making any decisions.

DGM was told she needed to move homes.
Thankfully she actually died before a move was arranged, so she didn’t have to go through that.

We haven’t @EmmaGrundyForPM I wouldn’t say it’s blanket policy at all.

It’s better to go and get a feel for the home itself, speak to the staff, look around- rather than think state of the art/plush means better care. It doesn’t.

It depends, the state won’t fund a private one This is incorrect. The LA will buy places in private homes if they can agree an acceptable price. My dad is in a private, for profit, nursing home. Most of the residents are self funders, but they have several LA supported people there.

My mum was put into a Care Home by SS. So they chose one that was within their funding rates. Thankfully the staff were brilliant and my mum was there for over 5 years before she died.

My mum had savings and a good pension, so she self funded for about 4 years, but when the savings dropped below the £23K mark, the LA agreed to pay their funding rate. However, the Care Home (which has changed hands) required us to pay a top up. The top up could not be paid out of her remaining savings and had to be paid by relatives or friends. Luckily it was only about £200 a month (after some negotiation with the home)

If you are looking for a suitable Care home, my advice is look at the staff rather than the building. Do they seem to enjoy their job and look happy? Do they get on with the other carers and work as a team? Have they worked there for a while? Do they have warm relationships with current residents? Do you feel welcome and comfortable visiting?

This!

This is indeed also an option. I sort of discounted it on the basis that the OP was asking the question. Possibly too much of an assumption on my part.

Useful link, thank you.

I work for adult social care. I currently have four pick ups on my case load.

The council has no money. Three of the people are having to move to much cheaper homes - from £1600pw to c£850pw.

It's disgusting that home can have hundreds of thousands off people then not drop to LA rates once they've fleeced someone's

On the other hand, £1600 is ridiculous- there's often no difference in care between the pricey home and the cheaper ones

Be aware that the most expensive homes are not always the best, OP.

Hello

Try and get a referral to Social Service or look on their website. They will explain their rules & how they are applied

For example (see attached)

Where I worked once you became LA funded the family have a top up to pay. Around £100, if family couldn't pay this (the resident isn't allowed) they'd have to move

Thank you all again for your advice/comments. Her savings exceed £23k so would not be eligible for any state funding initially. She has full mental capacity but is riddled with arthritis and almost blind and can only successfully live in her own home currently due to the familiarity of her surroundings and us (family) and carers doing a lot of the cooking, cleaning, etc. We're of the understanding that if she is self funding, she wouldn't need a LA assessment. Her biggest fear is "being put in a home" and having no say in where. She wants the choice of where she goes. I do agree that higher fees doesn't always mean better care or accommodation though and I might have to gently remind her of this.

That's interesting to hear that she wouldn't be able to top up any subsidised fees with her own income/pension once her savings ran out but ultimately it's not a problem for family to pick up the shortfall. But like a previous poster said, it might not come to that..

To be honest, I think she's lonely. She has at least 2 visitors a day (carers and family) but nobody to sit and talk to on a night after her tea (her words) and this is actually the driving force behind her wanting to move and not that she needs personal care or medical assistance beyond what can be provided in her own home.

Thank you all again though - it's certainly not as straightforward as it seems it should be

Not read all the replies but we’ve had to look into this for my dad - in summary - choose your home and pay.
when you get a few thousand above the savings limit. Apply for a social services review. They will do a needs asessment and say what they’ll fund.

if this doesn’t fund his care where he is you have a strong case to appeal on the basis that he’s well settled after x years and it will be harmful to move him - and chances are they’ll then agree to fund his place.

if not (dad had dementia ) we assumed actually he wouldn’t really have enough capacity to care much. As it was he obligingly passed away after about a year, before the funds got low.

They do include the pension in the state funding, so most of that would go to paying for the home, leaving a small allowance to pay for things like toiletries, clothes and haircuts. That's because the person isn't paying separately for food or utility bills. The state funding then pays the rest of the agreed rate to the home.

It's if the cost is higher than that that a top up could be requested but it can't come from the person's savings.