Is my Mum likely to get CHC ?

[StiffyByngsDogBartholomew]

Dad is getting to the point where he can no longer cope with Mum at home. They currently have two care visits a day (was 4 but he refused the visits in the middle of the day as they were pointless) which are funded by SS.
Mum is paralysed, catheterised which she cannot empty herself, unable to speak, has a cocktail of medications which have to be given at various stages throughout the day. She has heart failure and kidney problems as well as an unknown level of brain damage from the stroke she had in 2020. I think soon she may get to the point where she will need to be hoisted into bed etc although at the moment she pulls herself up onto a Sara steady

I've had a look on the screening questionnaire which looks like she might be funded or at least eligible to apply but would appreciate any experiences.

It sounds like she'd be better off in a nursing home.

At the moment dad absolutely won't consider it, it will take a crisis for that to happen unfortunately. However my question wasn't whether it would be better, as it undoubtedly would, but whether they would be likely to get a funded place or not. Their money is tied up in their house apart from some savings.

Sorry, that didn't answer your question.

My experience of applying for CHC is really negative. They do their best not to award it.

A friend of mine applied for her DM and it wasn't awarded, despite the mother being incapable of doing anything at all for herself and having 24 hour live in care.

Thanks, that's really helpful @TheShellBeach

It doesn't sound like she would qualify for CHC funding as it sounds like most of her needs would not be considered nursing care. Hard to say for definate though

Mind you, things may have improved since then. It was about six years ago. And it's ten years since I applied on behalf of my aunt (who also had 24 hr care and didn't get it).

Hopefully someone with more recent experience will be along.

I actually think that all of the OP's mother's needs could be classed as nursing needs.

CHC has become increasingly difficult to get, and from the description of your DMs needs, I would also say she probably wouldn't qualify - and even if she needs hoisting, that won't change the decision.

Golly. I think it's appalling that CHC is becoming harder to get.

FFS nothing useful is ever easy, is it?

@TheShellBeach A family member who was unable to sit, walk, talk, doubly incontinent, uncontrolled epilepsy requiring a specific rescue medication rarely used outside of hospital, tube fed, needed regular suctioning, hoisting, poor circulation and temperature control and had to be constantly monitored only just scraped through the CHC assessment.

I know people who were granted it then had it taken away at the annual renewal even though their condition hadn't improved.

AgeUK will help.

My dad had a stroke recently. He cannot move, needs to be hoisted, is doubly incontinent, not really eating properly, massive agitation, can be aggressive at times, no nursing home would take him for a long time. We were refused CHC funding. Currently waiting for appeal and have been told it takes 3-6 months! Good luck. All the documentation is online through the government website. I found that useful to look through.

From what others have said it doesn't sound as though she has 'nursing needs'. It's really hard to get CHC funding.

Recently the only patients I know that has been given funding is patients who are imminently dying.

I do know some patients who require 24hour professional nursing care (peg/ng feeds, nursed in bed, complex wounds, catheter etc) however this can be covered by district nursing services and difficult to gain funding for this.

My grandad is in EMI residential care, had Alzheimer's for 15 years. Needs all care (feeding, washing, dressing, prompts for toilet/incontinence) cannot be left alone at all. He had maximum package of care at home and is there every day it came to crisis as even this wasn't enough for him.
His complex medical history is longer than my arm.
He doesn't qualify at all.
This has been filled out by his nurse and myself (also a nurse) and he didn't score enough on the criteria as he doesn't have 'nursing needs'

It's such a tough situation

Thankyou all, this has been very helpful. The area where mum would score high is continence as the district nurses come every week to wash out the catheter but it still blocks at least once a month and the crisis team have to be called. For this reason alone mum could never be left alone as it is very unpredictable.

So let's say Mrs X has high care needs like Mum but not qualifying for CHC, her husband dies, she has no money saved and lives in a council property, what on earth happens ?

There are no Nursing needs there. Nursing needs would be things that needed a qualified nurse like tracheostomy suctioning, maybe Peg tune feeding, that type of thing, although not even sure PEg feeding would qualify.

Of course what I would class as nursing these days doesn't qualify.

In the dark ages, when I trained as a nurse, washing and feeding patients was regarded as nursing care.

@StiffyByngsDogBartholomew if she cannot managed with carers 4 times per day, she would go into residential care. That would be council funded.
If family want them to go somewhere specific family top up fees.
People who's catheter blocks etc again are managed by carers at home ringing the district nurses to come out.
I know this as I'm a community nurse, the amount of people who live alone with carers 4 times per day who need assistance with everything or nursed in bed are quite high. A lot of people want to stay in their own homes.

I tried to get it for my mum and it took so long battling with the powers that be at the hospital that she died in the meantime. My dad was under the care of the hospice and they were magnificent in getting help for him and in the end did obtain CHC and although he lived with me we received, at no charge a live in carer. Please ask your GP to refer you to your local hospice and see if they can apply for you. Good luck.

@TheShellBeach nurses still do this amongst a million other complex things.

But all what you described can also be provided by trained carers.

Yes I used to Nurse in a hospice and many end of life patients wouldn't even qualify. Sometimes the patients with motor neurone disease who had a high choke risk and needed suctioning and a machine to help strengthen their lungs would qualify.

My Mum was awarded CHC after a large stroke. It funded the 4 care visits a day. Worth a try?

If there is no money then after a care needs assessment and a financial assessment the council would pay for either carers at home or a carehome. The dn need to investigate why her catheter keeps blocking, if they are already doing weekly washout, is it not hanging properly, is the tubing getting kinked, is she a bit dehydrated. Chc seems to be awarded for complex or end of life care now. Could you ask for another care needs assessment, if dad is struggling it might be better to have the 4 visits a day again. Does anyone have health poa for mum.

I successfully applied - they awarded 30 minutes for lunch, 30 mins dinner, then overnight sleep in from 10pm - 8am including morning shower and breakfast.

Still wasn't enough so she went into a nursing home 5 months later fully funded

@TraitorsGate nobody seems able to determine why it keeps blocking. Last time it had shifted internally, they are looking at an in dwelling (is that where it's done through keyhole surgery) one but there's a long waiting list. Sometimes mum pulls at it a lot but also it's sometimes due to excessive protein strains so it doesn't seem to be one definitive cause.

they won't award carers again because dad won't have them. To be fair some weeks they would come at 9 then again at 11 then nothing til 6pm and another visit at 8 so hardly evenly spread throughout the day. He is his own worst enemy but I won't go into that on this thread, I've moaned enough about that in the cockroach cafe.

I went to the NHS England appeal stage with my mum last year and she didn't qualify despite a wide range of medical needs and exceptionally severe dementia.

We've just been through the assessment with my mother in law, who has also been turned down. She is completely bed bound and unable to stand, so has to be moved with a full hoist. She is doubly incontinent, has severe dementia, is very aggressive, has extremely delicate skin and frequent bedsores, won't speak, and has lost 20kg since October because she refuses to eat. CHC funding seems to be a bit of a waste of time as no-one ever seems to get it .