Is my Mum likely to get CHC ?

[StiffyByngsDogBartholomew]

Dad is getting to the point where he can no longer cope with Mum at home. They currently have two care visits a day (was 4 but he refused the visits in the middle of the day as they were pointless) which are funded by SS.
Mum is paralysed, catheterised which she cannot empty herself, unable to speak, has a cocktail of medications which have to be given at various stages throughout the day. She has heart failure and kidney problems as well as an unknown level of brain damage from the stroke she had in 2020. I think soon she may get to the point where she will need to be hoisted into bed etc although at the moment she pulls herself up onto a Sara steady

I've had a look on the screening questionnaire which looks like she might be funded or at least eligible to apply but would appreciate any experiences.

Your Mum would likely have nursing needs, so would be eligible for FNC contribution of around £200 a week towards a nursing home. The rest would be payable, a charge could be put against the house so wouldn't need to be paid immediately.

If someone has no funds the state pays, if they have funds they contribute until their assets are diminished to a set amount, depending where in the UK they live.

Yes she may get fnc, are they claiming attendance and carers allowance,

My MIL had the worst type of stroke. Was left doubly incontinent, unable to speak or swallow, very little movement so hoist required. We were unsuccessful in claiming. From what I've read on here since then it is about whether there is actual nursing care required as opposed to trained carers.

I hope you have a different result, it is so difficult, you have my every sympathy.

There is a huge misunderstanding about what fully funded continuing healthcare is.

Its awarded when the nature and intensity of care required is so complex and unpredictable that it can't reasonably be funded by the two other normal sources of funding for care.

Those two normal sources of funding are social care funding and nursing care funding. Most people who apply for fully funded continuing healthcare will probably end up being eligible for the funded nursing contribution which is the NHS's contribution to any care needs that need to be managed by nurses.

Fully funded continuing healthcare is for the exceptional cases where the care needs themselves are so complex and so intense and so unpredictable that they can require usually daily input from a health professional like a nurse, which indicates a need so great that it can't lawfully be funded even in part by adult social care.

It's difficult to get because most people's care needs can be met by either adult socail care or adult social care + the funded nursing contribution.

Fast track continuing healthcare is something different again and can be given to anyone who is felt to be terminally ill and in the rapidly deteriorating phase of that terminal illness (usually life expectancy would be less than 12 weeks).

I’m a supervisor for a care company.
in our area CHC is normally only given to people within the last 12 weeks of life. I have know people to get CHC for complex issues but it’s quite rare.
If you have a good professional on your side sometimes they can pull it off, we had an OT do it with one of our ladies before Xmas and it did get awarded. Her issues are very similar to your mums. That was the first one in a long time tho!

I know.

Nurse funded care only applies to people in nursing homes and not own home.

As a health professional I am very cynical about CHC. It is very open to interpretation. People do get it though but very dependent on how sharp the relatives elbows are.

Hi my Mum had dementia, but in 2020 she had a massive stroke which left her completely paralysed on one side. My Dad wanted her home, she had 4 visits a day from carers. However within a week she developed multiple pressure sores (sent home with incorrect mattress). This resulted in her being severe pain when she was being moved and attacking the carers with her good hand. After 6 weeks she was moved to a home where she was able to receive round the clock care. I unsuccessfully applied for CHC, I had a lot of guidance from Beacon (please see photo attached), they said my Mum's case was borderline. It was hard work to put the case together, but ultimately I believe we lost as by the time we had the final hearing Mum's pressure sores were healing and consequently she wasn't attacking the staff any more. Good luck its definitely worth speaking to Beacon

I would say she’d be likely to ‘pass’ the intial screening checklist and qualify for full assessment.
and that is worth doing
based on what you’ve said I would guess based on my experience that she would be very unlikely to qualify for full CHC, sorry.

And in the case above I would agree that was a strong case for CHC but only with the very challenging and unpredictable behaviour and will high grade pressure sores that weren’t healing. If both those things had stabilised then I see why it wasn’t successful but it doesn’t seem right. The whole system is so ridiculous and this is a big part of why I left after 18 yrs in the profession doing these assessments and arguing with NHS about them.

My mother had a neurological condition similar to MND and we got CHC funding pretty easily (This was pre-Covid though so things may have changed). The nurse who came out to assess was really helpful but I was surprised we got it as I had read lots of horror stories.

I think I had seen the checklist beforehand and knew that we needed a certain score to qualify so I’d try and find that if I were you so that you know what areas they are looking at.

Good luck.

We're recently asked at a nursing home we were considering for my Aunt who has had a stroke. The nursing home specializes in end of life care and said that things have toughened up a lot recently. They have most success with CHC with those who are in their final months or final stages of MND or Parkinson's or who are paralyzed by strokes, totally dependent on nursing care for all personal care, and then they, the home have to really emphasize the total helplessness of their patients to succeed. Our Aunt isn't there yet. It sounds like your DM is getting closer. It might be helpful to apply now and then if you are turned down you will understand the criteria better and be better placed to reapply. Age UK has a helpful guide to applying on their website (Factsheet FS20)

We are having our CHC assessment for my father in a few weeks. If anyone can give advice on how best to present a case? Are there things you need to say to get the correct ticks.

He had a stroke and is totally paralysed down his let side. Doubly incontinent. Is manic and random in his mood and will become extremely aggressive, punching etc. he once got a table with his working arm and flipped it onto his bed. It seems to be very erratic and unpredictable behaviour that the CHC looks for. Is this the part of my dads needs we need to explain in depth?

Any help from those who have been successful would be so appreciated.

It sounds like your dad is at crisis point. Your mums conditions are worsening.

My mil had heart failure, as completely blind, had mobility issues before she went blind, kidney and lung issues aswell as diabetes and didn't qualify for chc.

If you're looking at chc funding, you really should be looking at care homes.

She will be moved into a care home under those circumstances.

Thanks everyone for the advice etc.

we aren't at that point yet plus they do have savings so would be able to self fund but this wouldn't be for long at £1400 a week. I was just looking at the financial situation and whether a fully funded place would be likely or not.

Dad won't move her into a home unless absolutely no other option is available as (a) he doesn't think they should have to pay for it (I don't want to get into a discussion about this) and (b) he would feel very guilty

I agree that most applications for CHC are unsuccesful and reason is that the care needs can be met by trained social carers and do not HAVE to be done by a nurse, they do make it very hard and people with really complex needs still arent often eligible.m She will likely be eligible for FNC.
There is a big piece of incorrect info on here about the house and paying for care homes. If your dad still lives in the house then the value of the house is disregarded, there is no charge put on it. The house only comes into play if he dies or himself moves into a home.
Your mum would be assessed on her savings and income so if she has more than £23250 in assets/savings (not including the house) then she has to fund her own care. If she is under this her local authority will contribute on a sliding scale till she gets to £14250 (if you want a more expensive care home than the council will pay for you or a charity etc have to pay a top up, she cannot use her own funds).
Assuming they are joint tennants I would suggest speaking to a solicitor to get changed to tennants in common (so both own 50% of the house). This would mean if your mum went into a care home and then your dad died he could leave his 50% of the house to whoever he wants, if they stay joint tennants all of it could go to pay for her fees. It is perfectly legal and not deprivation of assets.

@betterlifeahead
Please see my earlier post, Beacon are very helpful. Your Dad sounds very similar to my Mum. Best wishes

https://ukcareguide.co.uk/chc-funding/

have a browse through this may help you

As an aside, it could be worth mentioning to your GP and social worker that your Dad is being obstructive to her care in declining these visits. If she is awarded 4 visits a day then she needs them. Do the carers have a key safe so they don't have to interrupt him/make him deal with them?

I used to work in care and came across this so often - one man kept sending us away and his poor wife was covered in bed sores as he couldn't/wouldn't move her to change her pads. His stubbornness = your Mum's neglect.

We applied for MIL in 2016. She was in a residential/nursing home with advanced dementia, heart failure and probable pancreatic cancer. Completely immobile and could not feed or toilet or care for herself at all. We were successful and I’m sorry I can’t remember the details of how she scored, but “luckily” she was very aggressive and fought the staff tooth and nail, literally, every time they attempted to come near her for personal care. This gave her the necessary extra points to get over the threshold.However, with people saying it’s got more difficult in recent years this may not be relevant now.
She died about four or five months later.
It’s a ludicrous system when you think about it.

I forgot to add that my Dad was awarded CHC very quickly, but he was end of life and the application went through the palliative care specialist.

That is already how the estate is left, has been since they wrote their wills about 40 years ago. On the death of the first parent their 50% goes to me rather than each other. When we finally get round to doing it we will also do the same.
it also protects DDs inheritance in the event of one of us remarrying if the other dies.

Just apply for it. At worst they will say no, at best it will be a yes. You have nothing to lose by askin.

Possibly but it won't be looked favourably that your dad refused 2 care calls - offered 4 but accepted 2.