Refusing to engage with Power of Attorney process

[Foxymoxy68]

We are trying to support my dad in sorting out a Lasting Power of Attorney for himself and my mum. He knows how critical and overdue this is (they are in their early 80s).
My dad is in good health but we have grave concerns about my mum who is showing serious signs of memory loss and confusion-however she refuses to see the doctor and denies that there is an issue.
When we broached the LPA conversation, she got very worked up and accused us of wanting to put her in a home, saying that she wouldn't agree to it and wouldn't sign it. Despite our attempts to explain what an LPA is, she just wouldn't hear of it.
We obviously need to revisit it-my Dad isn't very assertive with her and needs our help but I'm dreading having the conversation again.
I'd be so grateful if anyone could advise on how we can move forward with this. Thanks.

Unfortunately if she has capacity and refuses to give POA there is nothing you can do. If she loses capacity (eg dementia) you could apply to be a deputy under COP.

Don't delay your father's one because of your mother's reluctance. Hers sounds as if it is a lost cause, if she has capacity then she is entitled to decline and if she doesn't have capacity then she can't do it anyway. Get your father's done and accept that the other isn't happening.

Just to add-I phoned the GP practice about a year ago explaining in detail our concerns about my mum's health-he called her in for a well-woman check, she went but my dad didn't go in with her and nothing has come of it since. So frustrating.

I would focus on getting LPA for your dad. Maybe she will follow his example.

Are you doing the same for your father?
If you and he can demonstrate that it's a sensible thing to do for everyone as they get older it stops it being "you're getting incapable of managing your affairs Mum".

Genuinely, LPOAs should be done way before they're needed to avoid this sort of thing. So, your father doing it too will help you in the future.

Good luck. It's a really difficult time as you you face the fact that your parent(s) is facing dementia

If your dad is in good health hopefully he would make decisions on your mums behalf should she need it?

I have to admit being a bit uninformed in these matters and didn't know my dad could do his own 🤦🏻‍♀️
That's brilliant advice-thanks so much.
I think that needs to be the next step and hopefully she will follow his lead. If she doesn't, she doesn't!
Thanks again everyone.

Definitely get your dad to do his. Depending on finances, if you get a solicitor to do his, they can be very good at having the conversation with someone who's not keen. And because the plus points are coming from a professional/someone objective, it's a lot less fraught.

The process is actually 'done' by the person themselves. They are granting someone else a lasting power of attorney over their affairs. That's why they have to be in place before a person becomes unable to make that decision. And for elderly people it can happen suddenly e.g. a stroke or heart attack.
Obviously other people can assist in completing the online forms etc. Or you can pay for a solicitor. But legally the person granting the power must do so knowingly and with capacity to make that decision.
It could be tempting to think that if financial things are all in joint names it's not necessary, but you Mum may live for many years and although hopefully your dad will too, there are no guarantees.
We found we only used the financial lpoa but did both the financial and health ones for both my parents.
We also chose to have 3 appointees but opted to be able to act severally as well as jointly. This meant we only needed one signature to any action. Obviously that requires complete trust and open communication but it definitely made life easier on the admin tasks

Is there someone your mum would trust? Friend.? Vicar etc who could reassure her?
but certainly get it sorted for your dad.

We sold this to the PIL by telling them we were doing ours (true) and pitching it as what would happen if you were in an accident and temporarily unable to make decisions, and how much happier we were now we knew we had someone we could trust to look after things.

If your parents refuse there's not much you can do. You won't be able to advocate for her or have any choice. Try to explain to her that it's a) you making choices in her best interests under poa
Or b) socail care making those choices.

That is crux of it. Treat your dad and mum separately. Dad could be mums poa and you a deputy or joint? That's one way to maybe convince her.

My mum was the same until it was clear she wasn't OK and she caved.

They should sorted it years ago. Its nearly always in their best interests to have a love one do poa.

But as my mum was a cranky and often aggressive I wouldn't have been able help her and that would have been her wish. That's where you find peace if she continues to refuse.

Would it make a difference to your mum if your dad and you have joint POA for her? My late husband and I had POA for each other alongside my son. Now my husband has passed away, I have just returned my POAs for Health & Welfare and Financial Affairs to the Office of the Public Guardian. They have stamped the originals to note that my son is now my sole Guardian should I lose capacity.
It may also help your mum to understand that the POAs will NOT be able to be used unless she or your dad actually lose the capacity to make decisions and care for themselves.

It has to be agreed to by the adult themselves. You can't coerce and they need to be consenting and have capacity.

Doesn't sound like your mum has capacity to agree to this anymore.

You will need to apply to court.

Above is assuming you are in England. Laws are different in Scotland.

In all honesty having a deputy can be a better all round.

I feel you, as my mum and uncle have been trying to have this conversation with my 89yo nan, who has dementia and is refusing to cooperate! It's a nightmare tbh.

We've now told her that if she doesn't give family LPA then social services will take control of her finances if she needs to go into a home (which is a real possibility) so the ball is now in her court.

My mum has stopped mentioning it at this point, as its just stressful and my nan is stubborn as hell, so she said its not worth worrying herself over something she can't control.

The person applying for the power of attorney must be in a sound state of mind and understand what it entails. Unfortunately it sounds like your mum is not. However I would get one done for your dad sooner rather than later as it takes about 12 weeks to process the application. Good luck x

I’ve had LPA for my Mil, and am now Deputy for my stepfather,
Honestly, I’d advise to leave it. She clearly doesn’t want it, and generally speaking not having LPA wouldn’t be too difficult especially as your DG is still alive. Medical staff will still consult with you, you can arrange having her state pension paid into your account if she cannot manage her money anymore and if she does need care, finances can be sorted out. If needs be, you can obtain Deputyship, as long as she has a diagnosis of something like dementia,

That’s absolutely terrible and is also not correct! Bullying an elderly woman is never ok!

Ah we've just had this. My grandparents luckily did it with there wills in there 60s. My gran has full dementia now so my mum is able to sort everything and up till last week she was also able to do everything for my granda who has just passed away.

Get your dad's done.

For your mum, does she have joint finances with your dad? If not would she agree to joint accounts?

If she has a joint account with someone else then at least that person can make sure the bills are paid.

However the vast majority of people don't have POA done. And even if they do, they aren't necessarily used. We never used the one for FIL. I use my mum's but just to do internet shopping for her. So I'd leave it and stop panicking.

This isn’t correct. When my stepfather’s care was being sorted social services absolutely included me in all decisions. They were a valuable source of support.

She could just do a financial one to get the ball rolling? Just so you can help with banking, bills etc.- "oh mum, wouldn't it be helpful if we could talk to British Gas for you so you don't have to worry about it" (etc)
We also found that having a friendly neighbour who has been through it all pop round as a witness very helpful.
I am a bit worried though that she needs to have capacity to sign the forms. If she doesn't really understand what's going on it might be a bit late unfortunately?

This really sensible advice. Of course we really want to care for and advocate for our elderly. However if they refuse, make bad, terrible or dangerous disisions that is there choice. I had to go to a crisis MH hub about my mums choices around her health and care while trying to set up poa. In hindsight I should never made myself sick over a grown adults stupid choices. Mum died within days of that visit and I was full of regret. However, that was ultimately her choice to ignore medical letters. It was a possibility that bad choices would lead to an untimely death. But I did not choose that for her. I treird to prevent it. I was more worried than she was.

Get your father's organised - Finanical and Health & Welfare - ASAP. As part of it he can write a letter of wishes detailing how he would like to cared for.

I would suggest that your mother do a letter too, even if she can't/won't do PoAs. It will hopefully make her think about things. Of course, it carries no legal weight, but it is useful to know how they are thinking.

You also need to speak about DNR. If anything happens, CPR is extremely traumatic on an elderly person, especially if they are frail.