Churchill and other retirement type complexes- any experience

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My fiercely independent mother has hit 80, was widowed a couple of years ago and suddenly seems much more frail. She will only ever do things her way and on her terms but she’s starting to find the house too much and the Scottish winters too cold. There are retirement complexes near me that might allow independent living but take away the strain of dealing with maintenance, which she finds very stressful.

However, they’re expensive and I only ever see them for sale , not rent. Of course service charges on top.

Has anyone any advice on Churchill and the like- are they comfortable , independent but supportive? Do they sell on ? Thanks for any thoughts. I don’t think she’ll move until a crisis of some sort but I’d like to plan ahead a bit .

People will tell you they're a terrible financial decision because there are so many restrictions on resale.

However, if they met the needs of my elderly parents I'd say go for it. They'd need to look at much of the money as "spent" rather than invested, which is quite a reset for people who've been used to seeing their homes as investments, but realistically it's not them who'd benefit from the investment anyway.

I know two women in their late 80s who eventually sold large family homes to move into these places and they are both incredibly pleased they did.

They have almost certainly reduced the funds DC will inherit, but as their DC, I would have no issue with that, if it's achieved this for them and allows them to have reactively stress free independent living.

Thanks so much. I’m not concerned so much about the costs (as long as they truly represent peace of mind and the service charge deals with the life crap of bills and maintenance etc). I am worried about being tied into a property that doesn’t sell and having to pay ongoing charges for months to years with an empty property.

The massive red flag with these places are that the service charge is due until the property is sold, however Im not sure if that obviously applies to all these places. Its crap really because otherwise they sound perfect!

Check how much service charge as they vary wildly. Some are reasonable (£200pcm ish or under) but in some you can be paying £300 or even £400pcm which I think is exorbitant.
Also check what they cover. Most don't cover maintenance within the flat, only communal areas, external building structure and gardens/grounds.
She might be better in a non- retirement ground floor flat near you. Service charge will still cover external maintenance and communal areas but not a warden.

There seem to be so many issues with re-sale and I don't really understand why!

I don't want to bring doom and gloom to your thread but a family member is trying to sell one of these retirement flats in a lovely complex in a desirable area (Surrey) which her mother lived in for at least 5+ years, and it's been on the market since 2020 when she died.

It seems to me an unspoken scandal in our society. The population is ageing rapidly and so you'd think demand would far outstrip supply. I just don't get what's going on there.

I think the asking price is now less than £100,000. In Surrey! I'm completely baffled by it and don't understand why they are still being built if they never sell.

Can you actually sell them for a lot less though given most people buying them aren't mortgaging them?
When you add on the service charges it sort of makes sense that the actual property itself should be cheap. I think perhaps what needs to change is the perception of them - because the only thing I hear is the problem with reselling, and I don't know if it's because they are too expensive or if people genuinely don't want to live in them.

Mil went into McCarthy and stone. It was lovely and she enjoyed it. So from that point of view it was great and they did a good job of supporting her.
BUT. … the costs were very high with zero accountability. (Service charge and annual maintenance/ ground service charge etc). No say in what maintenance is or isn’t done or how it’s done. As for reselling it.. we got very very lucky and lost very little, but some bought at well over 1/4£ million and were back on sale for under £100k within a year or two. Be aware that they don’t waive or hold costs whilst you are trying to sell, plus they take a percentage of whatever you sell for.
Also some families attempted to use it as dumping ground for their relatives who were really to far gone to live there, and refused to deal with management. Basically viewed it as a care and nursing home, when that isn’t the level of care/support that is offered. As a result everyone suffers, which builds resentment and anger issues.
On the one hand I’m glad she was happy and safe, and the alternative available to her didn’t bear consideration, but I don’t think I could recommend them based on experience.

I spoke to someone in Surrey who did this... it all looks lovely; it's a racket. Akin to the whole freehold thing where landlords you never see let alone meet charge hundred of pounds to change the lightbulbs and there's nothing you can do about it. It's redolent of the current Conservative Govt's way of doing things, despite half-hearted piecemeal reforms coming up by Gove, the Govt consists of landlords who are on their own side, not yours.

It's another way of looting the public - why not, if they can get away with it?

Why aren't there similar "facilities" that aren't a racket? These apartments clearly meet a need, it sounds perfect as a way of life to me.

If you fully want the way of life that these places offer, and go in with eyes wide open, then yes it can be the right solution.

If you're not bothered about he community aspect it may not be for you.

Things to check

• how much extra for a car parking space
• arrangements for mobility scooters
• how care packages are arranged - free choice or do you have to use their preferred provider (and if so how do the rates compare to agency rates)
• costs of internal maintenance (do you have to use their provision, how does it compare to local going rate)
• resale issues: mainly the huge loss in value if you buy new, the need to keep paying service charges until the sale goes through, the %age that the company takes from the sale

We had problems selling MILs churchill flat in kent after she died. It took 2 years to sell and we just kept dropping the price so it was cheaper than anything similar in the area - so if you can buy one that is selling very cheap to start with it might be worth thinking about.

if we were facing the same situation again i would try and rent one or look at older residential homes - where my MIL was there were some older ones on the market at around £120,000 compared to the new shiny one which was about £375,000. Trouble was MIL had set her heart on the new ‘posh looking’ one and it was right on the high street and she wanted it.

McCarthy and stone do some rentals - they aren't remotely cheap but you don't then have the service charges, can bank your cash and you don't have to worry about resell. We are talking about £2300 a month on average. However for some people with a decent place to sell they could cover that by banking their house sale money if they are in that position

A couple of the other big providers offer rentals too

A friend of mine bought an apartment in an over-55 complex and didn't realise until she'd moved in that nobody under 55 was allowed to stay there. This meant that even at Christmas she can't have her twenty-something son to stay overnight. The officiousness of some residents was almost unbelievable.

Look at places that allow rent as well, many do but don't necessarily advertise it. Alternatively housing associations have similar but without the flashy extras

My father bought one after my mother died, he only moved across the road from a 2 bedroom non sheltered flat to a one bedroomed sheltered flat. ( Muirend / Giffnock, Southside Glasgow )

They are expensive due to the monthly service charge, which as someone has said has to be paid monthly until the property is resold.

The maintenance is only for communal areas - so she will still have to look after the inside of the property.

Took me a long time to sell it after he died.

Thanks so much for all your views and sharing your experiences. I hadn’t even considered being tied into specific care companies . @AuldWeegie I’m other side of the UK now and mum would be moving south to nearer me (hypothetically!).

I definitely need to keep my wits about me and read all the small print . Thank you to all who shared 😊

I'm completely baffled by it and don't understand why they are still being built if they never sell. They are being built because new ones sell. The number unsold old ones has not yet reached a level where planning committees see it as a problem, and shuffling off elderly people into tiny flats is seen as a solution to the housing problem

A relative is in one. Definitely rent. McCarthy and Stone do rentals and the service charge is included in monthly rental. Not at all cheap but for someone who wants some independence but the ability to have some care it’s great. You pay extra for the care.

They are not care homes though. They won’t help you up if you fall, they will call you to come or an ambulance. They won’t accept people who have dementia and cannot accept anyone who needs proper care. They do turn away a number of people though circa 20-30%. A women wanted to move in last year and she passed the assessment until she revealed at the last minute she would be bringing her partner who did indeed have dementia. She claimed she would be looking after him and he wouldn’t be a bother.

Low turn over of staff so they get to know the foibles of their residents. You can be asked to leave if it’s clear you cannot cope. The people living there have often been helped to move by family. People living there very rarely have no one.

They are really almost as expensive as care homes once carers in once a day, food at the bistro is taken into account. Most of the residents do come to meet up for lunch.

Honestly plan for circa £3500 per month.

I also think people get carried away with a new shiny place. Realistically they aren’t going to be living there for years on end and that is where the commercial aspect comes in. If you have to buy one (I wouldn’t) then look at the second hand ones.

It's not impossible they can work, but they have huge downsides and I agree they're a racket.

My mum moved to one of the top end ones (centre of a gorgeous village, pool, personal garden space) and was miserable there for 3 years. The service charges were stratospheric though she did swim in the pool most days. I felt that although it looked nice from the outside with lovely stone etc, they were in fact quite poorly designed and built. The fittings felt lightweight and it was dark and stupidly cold inside. She didn't regard the little outdoor space she had as a garden. It was very much for the fully able cohort, there was no communal dining room etc.

They were spacious, however, and the location meant that we did manage to sell at the same price she'd bought it for very quickly.

There should be far more almshouses and housing cooperatives with refectories being built for the older population. The U3A is a model of how older people can run things for themselves at minimal cost. There is absolutely no reason why these companies should be making such incredible profits just because an older person does really need a place that is easy to care for and accessible. And it should be illegal to build blocks of flats without lifts. A normal flat with a lift and a proper balcony would have been much better for my mum.

I saw one of these this weekend. Lovely modern block, with gardens, very spacious communal area. The flat had a good sized living room with fireplace, good sized bedroom too with spacious built-in wardrobe. Kitchen with plumbing for a washing machine and dishwasher and proper sized bathroom with walk-in shower. It needs decorating and new carpet but is on the market for £275,000 when a one bed flat in any other block (ie. not a retirement complex) in the area is £390,000 to £490,000.

If they are a racket then just stay where you are. Rely on your relatives to help and support you when the time comes. For us these places have been a godsend. Yes they are expensive but what do you want to have happen?

Relative was in their own home with a carer coming in and it was an accident waiting to happen.

Definitely don’t buy though unless the person is say late 60’s. Relatives place is a retirement plus place where you can pay for some care, get your washing done etc.

My I cow has just moved into a two bed apartment the service charge is £870 per
Month including a communal
Lounge , restaurant ( slightly subsidised ) and one hour cleaning a week , there is a house manager .
It's is beautiful.
The service in the one bed apartments is £550.

My uncle.