What do you wish you'd talked about earlier?

[FusionChefGeoff]

Thanks to these boards, I was a proper Adult recently and suggested to my parents (just turned 70 and in excellent health) that we start having roughly annual 'state of the nation' chats so that it's easier if / when we NEED to have a chat or in case one of them is taken ill very suddenly.

Idea is to get some basic info but also topics that the answer will change as they get older. So for now, answer to most is 'not applicable' at least it's on the table for later.

They have already given me POA financial and medical.

What should we have as the topics for discussion??

I'm thinking:

Housing - when to downsize / move closer to us or DB / local facilities etc
Health - how is everyone generally, any consultants / hospital details that would be useful
Treatment - at what point (if any) would they not want all efforts to be made to save them
Insurances - what do they have / cover / policy details
Money - bank accounts and passwords / investments eft
Pensions - as above, what, with who and how would we access
Help - quick review of cleaning / garden / food shopping etc
Driving - still a good idea?
Seeing / caring for grandkids - too much or still ok?
Friends / hobbies / social - still OK or need to find something to keep occupied
Mental health - how are they feeling

Any specifics or general ideas all gladly welcomed

Yes, I would be outraged if my DC were to start that conversation.

Especially as I’m the go-to person for advice on officialdom.

What I regret is not listening more to family history.

I have a copy of his will because I helped him talk to the solicitor when he last revised it. And his letter of wishes attached to his PoA for Health. What would be useful to know is if he paid for a funeral plan.

I’ve tried to tell DC how to get into the safe but they are supremely uninterested. All official and financial papers sensibly filed, and a summary spreadsheet. Another spreadsheet listing everything in the house which is financially or emotionally valuable so they know what they’re throwing away. Good clear filing structure on computer so they can find funeral wishes. Am in process of updating EPA to LPA, updating will. Letters of wishes attached to all. Am about to write down everything a care home will need to know, including phobia which DC don’t know about.

If you have been through this with elderly relatives, you understand the importance of being organsied before problems arise.
Dad is very open and we have had great conversations, so I know exactly what he wants. He has his papers in order, wishes written down and it makes it easier to assist him, when necessary.
My mother on the other hand has been a nightmare to deal with. I know nothing about her wishes, everything is guesswork.
I would recommend finding out about family history and get it written down. Digitise old photos with notes on who is in the photos.
Help them to declutter their home.
Read up on inheritance/probate/estate executive laws.
Keep important paperwork updated (wills, advanced wishes, funeral plans)
Ask relatives to make a folder of finances containing pension info, bank accounts, shares, investments, utility info, details of online accounts, direct debits & standing orders.
And another for personal documents e.g. birth, marriage certificates, passports, blue badges, driving licence, LPOA (if agreed)
Having it in an easy to find place makes it so much easier, especially if you are the executor of the will.
And once you have done it for them, do it for yourself. Much easier to keep up-to-date if you start younger.

Having lost my partner 6 months ago, I just want to add that having someone's passwords to online things doesn't mean you can log on as if you were them and shut down accounts or similar. What you will need is the death certificate and proof you are next of kin/executor - then the organisation will deal with you. They won't ask you for the password.

onlyoneoftheregimentinstep - if you became suddenly incapacitated (or worse), would you really want to put your DCs in the position of having to access and rummage through your house to try and work out legal/financial admin and practicalities on your behalf? Better to have the sensitive but practical conversation now, than add to their grief and burden later surely?

I've had POA and I'm also executor for 2 family members. The easiest and most straightforward (at a time of immense stress and grief) has been when DFs wishes had been clearly expressed, legal and financial paperwork in neat order with a summary sheet/checklist/passwords (including info on rehoming his pets!) No rummaging through underwear drawers/kitchen cupboards/bathroom cabinets for post like we had to do for late MIL - her paperwork was an absolute nightmare and took ages and a great deal of money on solicitors to sort out the mess. We also couldn't find her address book so contact details for some of her wider family and old friends were lost and we were unable to locate them in time to invite them to her funeral.

It's made us siblings very keen to ensure our own legal/financial paperwork is up to date and that DC know how they can access everything should they need to, and know our wishes. With so much being on our phones (address lists, logins etc) they also know our phone passwords.

Thanks for the info about the Age Uk Lifebook... very useful. I would agree about photos, family history too - my mum has lots of photos of people, but we don't know who they are.

https://www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/money-legal/end-of-life-planning/lifebook/

Several copies of the death certificate are often needed. We’ve asked for a dozen in the past. Banks etc. always want originals.

Interesting. Do you just want to leave your children to navigate this without knowing your preferences ? And without having any understanding of your financial situation?

What a great idea! I have sort of done that but not in as much detail. My own mother won’t discuss these things with me. My father died and left everything to her but she didn’t understand any of it. She got swindled by a FA and I found out years later had not informed various insurance companies that he had died . I spent months sorting out a terrible mess a long time later. I just dread what we’ll have to deal with when she dies . She won’t even tell us whether she wants to be resuscitated.
My father handles all the finances and all the paperwork when he was alive. She was clueless about what to do afterwards and he didn’t talk to me or my siblings about it either.

Think of the stress and strain for them if you die without them having a clue where to start or what you would have wanted. Grieving is bad enough without all that on top.
Not to mention the expense of solicitors having to do the work for them if they can’t cope.

@Myneedycat, my Dad used to do all the finances and pay bills too. My Mum had her housekeeping and the money not used she used to put into an old biscuit tin. It was odd because Mum used to choose where they'd go for holidays and what gifts they'd give everyone. Dad just paid for things. When he died we had to set her up DD to pay bills. She had no idea how much things like council tax or electric cost. She did make a will though because we told her it would make it much harder for us after she passed.

I think it’s a great idea.
also jewellery. I have a relative telling me that they want family members to have some of their jewellery. I suggested she writes down what is from where/what is sentimental. I would rather have a cheap no value piece that meant something/was from someone passed down than go for the most expensive item.

Not wanting, while still sound of mind and body, to be hectored by my DC does not imply that I intend to leave everything in chaos and that I haven't already started putting things in place. You seem to be accusing me of selfishness and lack of empathy and that's quite unjustified.

Passwords are useful for less official things, like letting MN friends know

It’s not an either/or. Preferences, financial information can be written down and stored together. And both preferences and financial situation can change radically over 20 years.

My dad passed on Thurs night/ Friday morning and the conversations we had has made everything so much easier.
Both my parents went through family members without a will, no ideas of what constitutes a 'good send off', care homes- the lot.
My advice would be to make sure that more then one person knows and understands their wishes.
Happy to answer any questions but looks like you've had some good advice so far.

My mum died in August, and whilst it was predicted, it’s still left us scrambling with dad to figure stuff out and it’s still going on now, with most of the admin down to me as my dad isn’t coping. Stuff I wish we knew / had discussed

• what the last wishes were re funeral and burial
• possible ideas for funeral directors and wake (sounds morose, but you don’t want to be starting this from scratch whilst dealing with fresh grief)
• the details of their wills and understanding specifics in details, esp if you’re named as executor or trustee. My parents have a property in trust and it’s becoming a massive headache to unpick with financial implications and causing a lot of stress for everyone. I really wish I’d sat down with my mum to understand this and what her plan was
• specifics on donations and bequeathing stuff - I know she had a plan for stuff but she didn’t get to document it, and my dad refuses to discuss it atm (also down to me to figure out)
• where their documents are (wills, birth certificates, passports, driving license etc. when people die, UK govt has a useful ‘tell us once’ service but you really need all the originals to submit the paperwork
• same with details on pensions, annuities, life insurance policies etc and taxes;
• If they have overseas assets or property, figure out what happens to it when people die (I.e. France has v specific laws on estates passing onto spouse and family)
• Living costs - when one person dies, does the other have enough to,live on per month on a single pension

My parents have a property in trust and it’s becoming a massive headache to unpick with financial implications and causing a lot of stress for everyone. I really wish I’d sat down with my mum to understand this and what her plan was We will set up a Trust when one of us dies. The wills give details, and are accompanied by Letters of Wishes which go into some detail about why and what we’re hoping to achieve. We will of course sit down with DC and explain, but even if we don’t, the Letter of Wishes should do the job.

This. Very difficult to get around to, because the implication can be 'You won't be around for much longer so let's do this...' - a bit morbid. In fact anything that is done on that basis tends to get put off. Same goes for filming bits of them on the smart phone - unless you are in the habit of doing this stuff anyway, the meaning behind doing this can be off putting. So find out or make up some other pretext for it. Taking them to a fancy location? You're filming the location, with them in it of course. Not your 'soon to be not here' parent.

My Dad having a charming, pleasant manner and small talk being the thing, it was disconcerting to come to learn that some stuff you'd think he'd never have forgotten, seems he had. So yeah, label the photos. You can film that too on the smart phone.

Be prepared that it might be upsetting for your parents to discuss this. Maybe don't ask everything at once.

Start with Power of Attorney. Then wills.

Then everything else. In small batches.

I’m nearly 60 and DH is 62 and I’m definitely going to initiate this chat with our children. They aren’t the type to ‘hector’ us, we’ve not bought them up to do that, but having sorted out all four parents estates I know it will make their lives easier when the inevitable happens.
We’re about to move and are making sure we have future proofed the location, on bus routes, walking distance from shops etc.
Will be doing POA with spouse and 2 out of 3 children as attorneys (the youngest has ASD and doesn’t want to be named) wills are up to date and funeral wishes have been talked about openly since the children were young teens.

I set this up for myself in Covid so a little shy of 50. My mum died without a will at 39 and my DSis at 38. It's never too early.

I have a file with all the deeds etc in. I use a company called cake that have all the information necessary. I've chosen readings and hymns.

Our house is set up so we are downstairs. Kids up.

And we have a flat that we rent out that will do for the last bit of life if needs be. Close to shops etc. Not necessarily where I'd choose to live but in town.

I think the doctor surgery has something called a Respect form for the elderly which also helps bolster what they want done towards the end of their life, as in the last year or so.

It does appear that hospitals can bump off patients if they are elderly and it can be guess-timated that they have less than three months to live anyway. I think this is legal under NICE guidelines and in many ways is worse than the now illegal Liverpool Care Pathway. This will be done via opiates, or more likely via dehydration in specially selected care homes that are on side. They don't seem to picky about going about this, I've found. I mean, if they die, they die, you can't row it back can you or prove it wouldn't have happened.

Therefore, if you have a parent in a poor state in hospital you may wish to consider if you want them to die at home instead because you can hang on in there in hospital and in some cases - esp if there is a big whiff of dementia - I get the impression they simply won't be allowed to leave that hospital alive. I wish I had known that - in a way, I did, but we got bought off with tea and sympathy the second time round, I feel.

This is a brilliant idea @FusionChefGeoff Really useful to see and I will apply it to my own aging. Unfortunately getting push back from elderly parents on what assistance they need.