Deprivation of assets? Can I be accused too?

[Mirandawrongs]

I have POA over my mother, jointly with my older sister.

I deal with all medical stuff and sister looks after the money.

mum is in a nursing home.
Self funding as over limit but will be under limit by November.

just found out my sister has given large sums of mums money to her adult children.
mum says it’s fine as the home can’t kick her out.

I’m concerned that this will be seen as depriving the assets mum has/had.

am I right to be worried??

I do understand your point but if her mother has asked her sister to do these things then it’s a grey area with regards to crimes being committed anyway, she’s ‘technically’ carrying out her mums wishes, and if her mum passes before November there’s nothing to answer to apart fromthe fact that’s she’s basically stealing her own inheritance early and by doing so diddling OP out of her share!

That's not correct if her Mum no longer has capacity. The whole point of PoA is to ensure that the person's money is spent in their best interests. You have to make decisions which are to the benefit of the person.

If her Mum has lost capacity, then a defence of carrying out her wishes is moot.

I meant keeping quiet as in not reporting.

I have seen someone on the sharp end of a joint PoA where there was wrongdoing on one side. It wasn't pleasant.

You all seem to be assuming that the OP has joint POA for property and financial affairs but in her OP she states that she only has health and welfare POA?

if she was joint financial POA she’d have access to the banks and could see what is happening anyway.

But you’ve got to determine that which makes it a grey area. I don’t think that’s been established yet.

I really don’t think you should report your sister unless you never want a relationship with her again. The only issue is the 10 k which could be considered a gift legally. No one will care about a grandson squatting in an empty house or a grand daughter using her grans car. You need to sell the house asap though and your sister needs to know this.

OP has posted to say her Mum has recently been diagnosed with dementia. Regardless, deprivation of assets can still take place knowingly (with the person's permission).

I really don’t think you should report your sister unless you never want a relationship with her again. The only issue is the 10 k which could be considered a gift legally. No one will care about a grandson squatting in an empty house or a grand daughter using her grans car. You need to sell the house asap though and your sister needs to know this.

This is incorrect. The council will care. Legally the £10K cannot be considered a gift unless OP's sister can evidence that this was given in accordance with her Mum's wishes. Given that their mother has dementia and has never given away sums of this type, she'd have an uphill battle convincing council investigators.

Your sister should be protecting your mum’s interests, not exploiting them. And she should be keeping scrupulous records of any money she’s paid out from your mum’s accounts.
Please check that she hasn’t made herself a joint account holder as in the event of the death of your mum, the money in the account will belong to your sister. This happened to my MIL. SIL moved large sums into a joint account and it all went to her when MIL died. Other siblings had no comeback.
People can become very weird around money. Good luck.

It really is quite horrifying how accepting people are of financial abuse of the elderly.

Silvered the 10k is only an issue if the OP reports her sister or there is no money left for care home fees. If the house is sold there will be plenty left. You only have one life is it worth destroying blood relationships over 10k?

My sister and I have joint PoA. If my sister did this, I'd speak to her and tell her she needed to sort it out to pay it back. My first reaction wouldn't be to make a formal complaint about her.
But I guess, ultimately, it depends what sort of relationship you have with your sister.

This is really good advice, I received my mums money in our joint account by ‘survivorship’, it was all above board but that rule does exist and can easily be exploited.

this is why I think OP needs to not take no for an answer from her sister and get involved.

Reporting her should be secondary to getting access to all this information and getting to the bottom of it before it’s too late.

Personally I'd find it very difficult to forgive a relative for stealing from my mother. Sister or not.

You absolutely can give gifts, if it’s something the person generally did and would want to continue.

Government guidance

Silvered the sister won’t see it as stealing though, she has told her mother and thinks her mother is ok with it.

The OP says: "I have POA over my mother, jointly with my older sister.
I deal with all medical stuff and sister looks after the money."

I interpret that to mean that both LPAs have both sisters as the Attorneys, but they have informally decided to split duties with one doing health and one doing finance.

In any case, if the OP is health and welfare Attorney, she has a legal duty to ensure that the care given is in her DM's interests, and if she is aware of financial conduct that could jeopardize that, she still has a legal duty to disclose it.

However you dice or slice it, she can't overlook it.

But if she had joint financial POA she would have the same access as her sister would she not? So could see exactly what is being spent where?

They are separate things from a legal standpoint, but can be appointed to the same people or different people, it depends how it was set up initially.

No one's saying to overlook it?

Not necessarily. The sister may hold the LPA document and may have set herself up with third party access to the account, but the OP may not have access to the LPA document and not have third party access because they informally agreed that she would 'do' health and welfare.

While there is only one original document, all attorneys are sent a copy of it. So far my brother and I haven't needed to show the original of the finance document to anyone.
The only request I've had for the original of either document was when we wanted to change my mum's doctor. The new surgery wanted sight of the embossed original.

OP shouldn't have any problem accessing her mums accounts, even if her sister refuses to give her the log in (which would be very foolish of her because it would basically tell OP that she had something to hide)

Doesn't make sense why she's gone quiet when OP's asked her about it, and claimed that their Mum gets confused.

Something smells off about the whole thing - I think OP is right to be very concerned.

The Attorneys are only sent a copy if the box is ticked. I am LPA for a church friend and only got a letter with a code to register the LPA online. The donor got the embossed LPA document.

With my parents, they opted to have the LPA sent to me.

???

Impossible to know whether, if the money does run out, the mum could carry on at the same care home. Homes are privately run businesses, some will have rooms for privately funded residents and rooms for council funded residents, some won't take council funded people at all. If it's the latter, she'd have to move homes, which is a big risk for deterioration in her condition.

Even if she could stay in the same home, the ones that offer both often have inferior rooms for the council funded ones - much smaller, shared bathroom facilities, for instance.