How awful is it when you secretly think it would be a relief if they died!

[BeachBlondey]

You can’t say this out loud, can you? My dad is an alcoholic and has been for 40 years. He ruined much of my childhood. He’s also morbidly obese as he's addicted to food. He has been in and out of hospital now for a while. It’s exhausting. Every day is centred around what is happening with him and what he needs. I love him but would be secretly relieved if he died. How bad is that?!

My mum was diagnosed with a brain tumour and told it would likely take 2yrs till she died. She was in awful pain and the pain relief she was given was ineffective. She had to get up each day cos DF worked nights and needed the bed during the day. He could have had mine but hey ho. Mum would sit in her chair not talking cos her speech was affected. No daytime TV then. Abusive useless F less use than a chocolate teapot. I knew I couldn't stay so got married and moved away. M lasted 4more months (almost 2yrs to the day after diagnosis). I was sorry for the relationship we never had, but pleased that she was no longer in pain.
We maintained a distant relationship with D until his alcoholism became too much an issue then we went NC. I heard he'd died about 6months after the event and I didn't shed a tear.

So relieved this thread is here, I was about to post on the main one.

I'm so sorry for all of us.

A 5am call because mum had fallen again
Forgive me as I might make no sense
The anger and resentment is eating me up. No one deserves to get old and no one deserves to have to care.

Today I just told the OT flat that I've been treated for anxiety and depression for decades - when you hid it, when it was something to be ashamed of. If anyone else tells me it's a privilege to care for anyone, I'll scream. So they'll do a carers assessment but that won't help will it.

the fact that mum is considered in good nick for her age makes it scarier.

Honestly, hugs for everyone that is struggling with this either now or in the past.

Whilst it’ll be a relief when my DM passes eventually, I’m also dreading the platitudes and sympathy that’ll come my way and I’ll still have to act the part so everyone feels comfortable when what I really want to say is how relieved I am and feel a sense of freedom for the first time. And if they go on about all that mother/daughter schmaltz I think I’ll scream! We do not have that sort of relationship

You all have my deepest sympathies, waiting for a DP to die is awful but when so many of you have a poor relationship with that parent it's even worse. Please don't feel guilty when they go, sometimes death is a blessed relief for both of you. My DM had dementia, we had a good relationship but as time went on the disease took more and more of her, her body stayed and her real self wore quietly away until the point she called me Mum. When she died I felt very sad but very relieved, she's at peace now and so am I

I remember 40 years ago my Nan had a big heart attack when she was staying with us . There was talk of her living in our house as we kids were all about to leave home . She would have had to have a lot of care . Sadly she passed away but I could remember seeing a look of relief in my mothers face . Being Young I thought she was a bitch but with age comes wisdom and now I understand.

Hi everyone, well, I have just my mum left my dad passed in 2020.
I was extremely close to my dad.
My mum I am not close to. We have never had a mother : daughter relationship.
She is rude, aggressive, bad tempered, constantly complaining, shouts, screams at me every single time I do the proverbial and dutiful visit, once a month, which is all I can bare. I literally can’t stand her.
I want her to go. I want her to pass away asap. No drama, just quietly go. I ask myself every single day, will she ever go? Will she ever die?
She is in her 80’s.
This person called my mother was emotionally, verbally and physically abusive to my dad. I try not to hate her for that, as hate eats you up inside. I feel tremendous guilt that I did not do more to help my dad. I tried and tried to get my dad to divorce her, he said the only way he will leave her is in a box, and that’s exactly what happened.
I have a brother, who lives locally, as do I, who does zero to help, they fell out in October 2023, my brother has not been round my mum’s since; it’s obvious he was glad he fell out with her. Meanwhile it’s stuck to dutiful daughter to visit. I literally cannot stand her. When the dutiful visit is over I’m running to the door to get away and back to my home where I sing I’m so relieved to be away. What it was like for my poor dad to live with her. She is selfish, paranoid, the whole talk with her, it’s not conversation, when I am there with her, is all about herself, even though she has grandchildren and great grandchildren, you would never know it. She rarely asks about them. She is a waste of space and that’s me being mild!
When the hell is she going to go!
It is all I think about sometimes.

She is still alive - beyond frail, semi-conscious, skin breaking down, immobile, but continuing to open her mouth for food and drink....

@moggerhanger that’s just bloody awful 😢 I also hope she has no idea of what’s happening- no words really

It's obscene isn't it @moggerhanger . Until I saw it, I had no idea how long "life", or at least a beating heart, could be extended.

My dad is pretty much in that state and has been for years. He's 96. Huge sympathy to folk in that situation.

I'm so sorry @MoralOrLegal . My mum has been that way for years too. Virtual hugs coming your way.

It does feel awful, but I thought it a lot when my grandmother was alive. She had been happy and pretty independent til she was 90 then had a fall. After a spell in hospital she had to go into a care home and hated it. She lived for two years and was totally miserable even though we visited all the time, offered to take her out etc (she wasn't interested)

My dad has recovered physically from a serious illness but the mental effects are ongoing. He's totally negative/depressed, but won't get help, obsesses over all his health niggles and is really hard work. I feel really guilty but I often think "I can't deal with this for another 20 years".

God what a thread! Its a safe space for us to really say what we think. Calls almost every day from god knows who about Mum and Dad. Some people think that when someone moves into a care home it all ends for you - nope...

What I found very useful is the co ordinator between the care home and GP. I was POA which REALLY helps. This co ordinator talked through further hospital admissions (no - not back to that hell hole) more antibiotics, more tests etc. I said at over 90 it needed to come to its natural end. So we agreed, that there would be no more hospital admissions. She was just very old. No more tests and they arranged for some EOL medication with her name on it. She was ready.

CAN WE PLEASE HAVE A GROWN UP CONVERSATION ABOUT WHAT WE ARE DOING HERE.

Of course if she had broken her leg she would have been treated but let her pass with dignity. She was bed bound and doubly incontinent. She lost almost half her body weight. The co ordinator got what I was saying. No rushed conversations with rude Doctors who clearly didnt have time to listen to anything very much and who looked about 12! What I did see many times was Doctors patting themselves on the back at keeping people alive with no quality of life (My late DF included). I know some people have mentioned Shipman but in my view it is more than that. It was almost a boast that they had done what they done.

The NHS is broken. We are going to limp on with the next government but nothing much is going to change.

My Mum promised that she wouldnt be a burden when she was younger but she was so elderly and frail in the last few years that she couldnt help herself. She was desperate and I was the only one there.

It's fine. I didn't see much of my dad in the years leading up to his death. He was like an overgrown child , throughout my life. I felt relief and freedom when he died. I don't miss him. I didn't hate him, but he never really knew me because he was wrapped up in his own needs.

I posted on here this time last year about my dad in late stage dementia. He ended up getting a chest infection just after Christmas, and died in mid -January.

It was a relief to all of us that he didn't suffer on for another few years wasting away.

I'm sorry to everyone who is still going through this, it's truly awful.

This.

I often used to wish that my mother (with Alzheimer’s) could just go to sleep and never wake up - before we had to put her through the upheaval of moving her to a care home. Which we knew was soon going to be inevitable

She was already 89 when the move happened, and went on to 97, and at almost any point during those 8 years it would have been a relief if she’d quietly died in her sleep - for her own sake, as well as for her family, who had to witness the awful indignities of her decline - because we knew how much her former self would have absolutely hated what she’d become. It would have been so much kinder.

Please don’t ever feel guilty for harbouring such feelings. They are very common.

Totally.

'when I tried to talk to the GP about the wisdom of giving my father antibiotics on a near weekly basis, she basically implied that I wanted her to let him die'

We've had this. So many thought leaders and doctors say we ought to talk more about death and be more open about what quality if life means. These speeches sound great in abstract terms and everybody nods thoughtfully. Then when you actually have to do it - really advocate for your family member's best interests, which involve not being alive any more, and you are immediately treated like a murderous bitch who probably wants to get their hands on the money (hah! The debts more like)

I would like a research study looking at how doctors respond in the real world tbh.

Incidentally once we finally battled our way to getting antibiotics crossed off my mum's drug chart, she's been a lot better overall. Those repeated little courses of antibiotics I don't think are particularly good for you anyway.

A friend of mine said this about her lovely, caring mum who was very poorly and elderly. I didn’t judge her one bit, not even for a second. I just felt sad for them both that their lives were so tough.
💐

I work in a nursing home on activities and often wonder why we are keeping these people who have no capacity, are bed bound with no quality of life alive. Some fund themselves, many are funded by the council. When I think of younger people including children who do not receive the medical care and medication due to cost and waiting lists it seems absurd.
I also see the strain on families who live close enough to visit and basically just waiting for their family member to die, but some residents are in these homes for years with their lives being prolonged.

My late mom had dementia. My late husband and I nursed her to the end.

Our family Dr told me that there would come a time when I would think, "Just hurry up and die."

I was horrified at what he said. He also said, "You don't believe me, I know."

I didn't. I was utterly stunned and couldn't believe our GP had said that thinking that won't be me.

3 months approx before my mom passed what my dr said, came to pass.

I told him this with a rueful smile. He said everyone is the same with this disease. He was right.

I have since advised friends with parent/s with the disease, saying all the things I find out. They, too, thought the same that it would be different for them until they realised it wasn't.

Any health issue can lead you to this. When you're 24/7 under the cosh of someone's health, it affects you too.

It's perfectly normal and does not make you a bad person. It means you're human and coming to the end of what you can deal with. It is the minds way of warning you that it's all getting too much

I actually had a prospective MP door knocking yesterday, who asked me what my personal priorities were. I told them to get assisted dying sorted out.
My mum was another one who had dementia and it was a living hell, I can’t bear the thought that it will happen to me.

Assisted dying is one thing, but IMHO we need to start by talking about unnecessary and artificial prolongation of life first, such as the triggering of the reflex for feeding by carers.

Eg, DM is never hungry - food is prepared and presented to her but she only feeds herself a couple of mouthfuls. I still get her little treats to tempt her just to make sure but she just isn’t bothered. Boxes of her favourite chocolates sit there for weeks untouched. However, some of her carers get very worked up by this and try and tell me I should take her to the doctor, get her fortified drinks etc. I believe it’s her body and brain naturally winding down, kind of like the opposite of baby-lead weaning. I’m not bothering the GP for a reduced appetite and I’d be very accepting now if she just quietly faded away, given how little quality of life she has.

The other conversation to have apart from forced feeding is withdrawal of life prolonging medication, such as antibiotics for an infection. Mums GP has already indicated they’re happy to take any situation on a case-by-case basis with no automatic presumption to treat anything other than pain, but as we’ve seen on this board, some doctors are programmed to sustain life at all costs so if mum was being treated by a doctor like that I could have a fight on my hands.

I think more people need to experience the realities of what life and death is like in its end stages of a prolonged decline/illness before politicians will be open to this, as none of them would want to risk being labelled as a granny killer. We know all too well that it’s very very hard to have sensible public debates on important topics. Even for an area such as letting them stop eating, which would be less controversial than assisted dying, we still need to discuss the balance of letting our very frail/elderly go when they have no meaningful quality of life vs safeguarding of vulnerable people from others who would benefit from their death. And I’m not sure as a society we’re capable of having that conversation in a constructive manner.