How awful is it when you secretly think it would be a relief if they died!

[BeachBlondey]

You can’t say this out loud, can you? My dad is an alcoholic and has been for 40 years. He ruined much of my childhood. He’s also morbidly obese as he's addicted to food. He has been in and out of hospital now for a while. It’s exhausting. Every day is centred around what is happening with him and what he needs. I love him but would be secretly relieved if he died. How bad is that?!

Thankfully my sibling and I can also talk about this after a first conversation where I initiated with a very roundabout 'I know this is absolutely horrible, but in a way it might be better .....'. The relief I felt when she agreed was overwhelming. Our priority now is making sure our DM can get through this to a point where she can enjoy some of the years she has left without having to spend them caring for my dad (in a way that she really isn't able to).

It does sound awful doesn't it? But understandable. Some people have been known to think this about old sick whiny clingy pets too. It's a horrible feeling, with such wrenching guilt.

Parents get really hard work when they're getting much older, and can put a real strain on middle aged adult children, who often have a job, children at home, the menopause, life struggles like financial issues, cost of living, soaring energy bills costs etc, and other commitments.

Having very clingy, needy elderly parents on top makes life very difficult. I have witnessed 3 or 4 people (over 75) who are unable to get about without lifts from their adult children, (and they need to go somewhere at LEAST once a week, often twice or more,) and they are very needy, and complain about everything, and they demand the children visit them 3 or 4 times a week and take them EVERYwhere.

I also know a couple of people who are housebound, need adult nappies, and need every meal cooking for them, they keep falling over and bruising themselves, and are taking about 15 different types of medicine/drugs, and I know a couple MORE who have an ambulance every other week!

All their adult children are at their wits end. As for the ones who are very sick, and being put through shit loads of treatment, and have zero quality of life, we don't allow this with animals/pets, why do we allow it with humans? WHY? My DH has a theory that they just use people to experiment with drugs to further medicine. Maybe he's chatting shit, but they might be! If that IS true that is horrific. But even if they're not, it's still awful to drag someone's life out when they are clearly suffering.

I think people will think the same about a husband or wife who is like this too. I know a woman whose husband developed dementia at 52. A really fit and healthy man up to 50-51, then went downhill sooo quickly. He was a really needy whiny clingy mess, and she said multiple times (about 2 or 3 years after he first started to get bad,) that she often wishes he would die - as everyone's life around him - including HIS - is just miserable.

I also have a friend (aged 30,) whose nan (aged 78,) was diagnosed with dementia 2-3 years ago, and she is a crumbling wreck now, who doesn't recognise most of the people around her, and cannot take care of herself at all. She hasn't been able to look after herself for about a year and a half, and she gets passed from family member to family member, (to stay with them for a month or so at a time,) as no-one wants to take her on full-time. She has 4 adult children, (all in their late 40s and their 50s,) and 6 adult grandchildren - in their 20s and early 30s. The poor woman gets shoved from pillar to post, with every last family member just wishing she would die.

I think the issue with euthanasia in people lacking capacity is the tricky issue. Towards the end, my dad didn’t even know he was in hospital. There is no way he had the cognitive function to make any decisions about his treatment or what he wanted to happen. There was a dnr in place but even when they withdrew all treatments and put him on a syringe driver for pain relief and sedation he lingered another 3 or 4 days. That was just awful, him totally out of it and unconscious, the rest of us sitting around waiting for the inevitable.

These comments really resonate, and I'm feeling grateful (and not so alone!) to everyone for sharing their thoughts and experience 💛

My Dad has parkinson's and comorbities. He has no independence, he needs support with everything, the majority provided by my husband and myself.

My Mum died 3 years ago, I miss her terribly. I promised her I'd look after Dad (though I have older siblings, but they're another story...) and I've did so, but it's got harder and harder. He was such an active and independent man, to see him with his wings clipped to this extent (with no hope of improvement) is soul destroying. I don't think he appreciates the emotional toll, for me, of the responsibility I've taken.

You can say it aloud, you can also walk away for the sake of your own sanity.

Ps sorry if I sounded abrupt then and in no way meant to put down people that are carers etc. Sometimes I open my mouth before engaging my brain unfortunately

Some people have lives cruelly cut short. Other people have lives just as cruelly stretched out to a sort of living death with not dignity, no quality of life, and living with things we’d kill a pet for out of mercy for the animal.

A close family friend has been like this for 5 years, getting worse every few months. If he’d known this was his future he’d have shot himself before it got anywhere near this.

As it is, he keeps living this awful life and the rest of the family are worn down and struggling to cope. Each time he goes to hospital I hope he will die. It would be a kindness.

Slightly different from OP as I had a good relationship with my mum, but she got cancer which swiftly spread. Towards the end, she was given palliative care only and was in a hospice for the last month. Watching your beloved mum die a painful death is HORRIBLE so I can't imagine what she was going through. We all knew what was going to happen, and towards the end, I just wanted it all to be over, for her and the rest of the family.

Also everything to do with them when they become unable to look after themselves costs an absolute fortune. Carers/companions going to their house £35 per hour. I know this because we have just hired someone.

Companionship for 1 person for 2 hours twice a week = £600 per month.

Thats simply for someone to take them out for lunch, or to the shops or watch a film with them. The companion does not get that much so presumably the agency has a huge profit margin.

Carer visits 4 x day for 15 mins each time (prompt meds, microwave dinner, wash/dress) over £800 per month.

Nail cutting - £40 per time (ok they are difficult to do now)

Electricity/gas per month (tiny house) £300-£400 per month because it's like a greenhouse all day everyday as they feel the cold even in summer

Wiltshire Farm Meals - Mini meals (utterly tiny portions for old people who can only eat a few mouthfuls) £4-£5 each

The costs involved are utterly terrifiying.

My mum is one of the lucky ones as she has a saint of a friend who takes her out every week without fail, helps with housework and errands and phones her everyday. Imagine if she was paying for that too.

All this is not counting the astronomical costs of her 30 tablets a day, the emergency alarm service to pick her off the floor when she falls regularly. The new sheets when she's soiled the last lot, the constant adult incontinence products and on and on and on.

If you are lucky enough to get old you better make damm sure you have money because even with it the quality of life/service is not that great.

I’m not saying they are worth less. Not at all. I would welcome euthanasia for compassionate reasons for those who want it. It’s such a contentious issue though but ultimately people are living longer but not healthier and it is unsustainable. So euthanasia will be legalised under the premise of compassion but really it will be economic otherwise it would be legal now. We’ve just not reached that tipping point yet.

i also remember watching a drama about Native American tribes. When the tribe moved on if any elders thought they couldn’t make the journey they chose to stay behind knowing the winter would take them and they wouldn’t burden the tribe.

Same with my grandmother, only without the charm and being loved. (Iassume some people loved her, I certainly didn't). I don't know if anyone else thought it, but I certainly did, if only so my mother could have some sort of life that wasn't running around after an ungrateful miserable old woman every hour of the day.

The “worth less” is a tricky one. Without a doubt.

The fabulous (and expensive) care home my relative was in had the GP visit every week just to check up on all of them. And then extra individual visits as and when needed. They’d not hesitate to call an ambulance out of GP hours, which was often a paramedic from many miles away.

In contrast, one of my school mum friends, from the same GP practice has this year sadly been diagnosed with stage 4 cancer. Weeks waits to see GP, when she could get past the initial phone appointment. Her diagnosis has been very slow, and unfortunately treatment even slower. The difficulties getting appointments/scans etc may or may not make a difference to how long she has left with her young family.

In an ideal world there would be time and money within the NHS for everyone. But there isn’t.

To me, it’s not a difficult decision as to who gets resources. A 40yr old or my 98yr old who frankly, had had enough of life some time ago.

Yep, alcoholic mother. When she died, it was a relief not to worry about her anymore, I felt like I had my life for the first time.. other people react very strangely when I say that.

Even with a much loved mum, I can't wait till she dies. She's suffering so much it is horrible for her. And for us supporting her. It can't come soon enough.

This thread is a great example of why the NHS is screwed. Why do we spend thousands keeping very elderly people alive with 50 tablets/day when they have almost no quality of life.

I know that my husband thinks this about his mother. She isn’t an alcoholic but she is an incredibly difficult woman and old age just makes her worse, she is late 80s. She is making her adult children’s lives very difficult especially SIL who lives closest. She also seems to get no enjoyment from life but just complains constantly and upsets her carers who keep leaving.

I don’t think it’s bad when people feel this way about their parents. Just a bit sad but perfectly understandable.

I'm sorry you've been through this.

We're going through the same at the moment with my completely wonderful dad. I can't imagine the world without him in it, but this is no life for him or my mum. I wished for him that the end would be quick but it isn't, and I'll be relieved for him when he isn't suffering anymore

I think that's what Shipman did at first , put people out of their misery . But I think greed took over and also a God complex .

My parents both had difficult last years, the thought mine might be the same feels me with horror. For that reason I have joined Dignity in Dying and pray that assisted dying becomes legal before I might need it.

I’d urge anyone feeling the same to consider registering their support too.

The fabulous (and expensive) care home my relative was in had the GP visit every week just to check up on all of them. My DF’s nursing home has a weekly “GP”, actually Nurse Practitioner, visit, but not for everyone, just the few who are on the list that week. Don’t think this excessive, the problem is the rest of us can’t get a GP. Our triage system is OK for emergencies - you usually get seen or at least phoned same day, but a routine appt will be 4 weeks away. And the habit of pushing things down to the lowest skill level, GP to nurse practitioner to nurse to healthcare assistant, means you’re seeing a different person for each bit of your body, no-one has oversight, the ability to draw everything together.

To me, it’s not a difficult decision as to who gets resources. A 40yr old or my 98yr old who frankly, had had enough of life some time ago. So what about a 40 year old who’s had enough of life and whose life isn’t going to be much improved by drugs vs a 98 year old who is enjoying every minute? The covid threads taught me that many on MN feel that once you’re over 70 “you’ve had your life” and deserve nothing.

The home has the most wonderful cook who makes fabulous cakes - i suspect that makes them keen to visit!
Our GP’s service seems appalling, but seems to be much the same everywhere.

I’d say the 40yr olds wishes will (hopefully) be listened to. In my experience, the dear old 98yr old will have treatment hoisted on them wether they want it or not…And realistically how many 98yr olds are enjoying every minute?! Not many I’d wager!

In my experience, the dear old 98yr old will have treatment hoisted on them whether they want it or not…And realistically how many 98yr olds are enjoying every minute?! Not many I’d wager! Maybe not. But I don't believe we should make decisions based purely on age. "She is 98, therefore she must be fed up of life, therefore we won't treat this simple to treat infection". "She is frail, needs turning every two hours, her weight is less than 7 stone, her skin is on the verge of breakdown, she can't eat without help, and every day she says "I don't want this any more"" is a different matter.

If we start saying "she is 98, palliative care only" then we're actually practising euthanasia, but euthanasia without consent.

My experience differs from yours, by the way.

I nursed my mother in law & I hated every single minute of it.
I work in a office for a reason.

When she went it was a relief. Meant I got my life back. People talked about it being a blessing in disguise - It was. She'd turned into a selfish person who was completely unlike the person she'd been. It was almost like she was my child because she couldn't do anything, without me there guiding her.

Most people understand how difficult these things are and wont judge you.

If it helps you to not feel guilty, I think a lot of the time when we wish they would die, it doesn’t mean we have murderous thoughts, it means we want the situation to come to an end and logically we know that’s the only way it will ever happen. We know they will never regain their health, their mental acuity. We know those with abusive and/or difficult personalities will never have a self-revelation and become easier to love. We want the stress and strain for us to end and for those of us fortunate to be in good terms with our elderlies, we don’t want them to suffer any more.

Separately, I think the whole euthanasia question is so very fraught with difficulties that I think as a nation we are not up to having that kind of meaningful debate. There are too many people who are too polarised and in entrenched positions.

i think everyone in this thread has says something to the effect that elderly people with a poor quality of life should be able to decline active treatment and be allowed to slip away with as much dignity as we can afford them, if that is the expressed wish of them and/or the families. However, there seems to be enough of a minority of family and friends who pursue the “treatment at all costs” option that seems to drive policy in hospitals. Plus I think it’s in the training of many medics to continue to treat and not necessarily take that step back and ask if it’s in the patients interests. And of course always the concern on how to avoid situations with unscrupulous relatives who have no real interest in supporting old Aunty Doris who still enjoys life with a bit of support now and then but do have an interest in the old family home on a prime corner of the estate.