Calling fellow cockroach cafe … um graduates? Going through probate- advice and support thread

[thesandwich]

Hello all, wondered if any of the cockroach clan now sadly dealing with the sadmin would welcome a thread for support dealing with probate/ house sales and all other joys?
id welcome any recommendations re executor accounts at banks etc?

[Whatevergetsyouthroughthenight]

Hi OP, I missed cockroach café but am a ‘graduate’ of doing three lots of probate in the space three years. Sorry for your loss.

I couldn’t find an executor account and ended up just using a semi dormant basic current account and paying everything into that. I transferred the few pounds left in it out to my main account so I had a clean slate.

I had no problem with getting people to pay stuff to me in my name. On the one occasion where I ended up with cheques written to ‘whatever the executor of whatever’s relative’ I phoned my bank and they agreed to accept the cheques as they had my name on and then I transferred the money into the account I was using as the executor account.

[Whatevergetsyouthroughthenight]

Sorry, badly worded, half awake! I the semi dormant account was one I already had in my name. If you don’t have one, just open one in your own name.

[Knotaknitter]

I'm done administrating. I agreed with the sole beneficiary (me) that the estate could be distributed if they agreed to cover the final funeral costs (the cremation will be 19 months after death as mum left her body to the teaching hospital).

Having learned from my previous experience with my husband's estate, I filed all the paperwork in a sensible place, putting my identity papers back where they should go rather than leaving them with the estate papers. I'm sure that extra copy of my birth certificate that I had to order will come in useful someday. There is a temptation at the end to ram it all into a file and hide it away because you'll never need to look at it again but that's not a good idea if your identity documents are in it.

Mine was easy, I knew where everything was, the estate was well under the IHT threshold and was simple - house, car, a few shares and the majority on deposit. It all came to me and that made it easier too. I think I was fortunate with my choice of estate agent, I had the house valued by a valuer rather than an estate agent and I thought ahead and asked him if he would recommend anyone. It was a small local agency I'd never heard of and they really did earn their money. They did all the viewings (free), decided on an open house one weekend - they just got on and did their job. When I valued my own house as part of my husband's estate it was easier because I live on a 1980's estate and Zoopla turned up half a dozen recent sales of houses that were exactly like mine.

If I had to do it again I'd have a gardener so I could spend that couple of hours a week on clearing the house faster and I'd bring in the house clearance people earlier rather than trying to do it all myself. I have no regrets about applying for probate myself, I didn't find it difficult. If there had been IHT to pay I might have paid to have someone look over what I did in case there was something I could have claimed that I didn't know about.

[Whatevergetsyouthroughthenight]

@Knotaknitter

I'm done administrating. I agreed with the sole beneficiary (me) that the estate could be distributed if they agreed to cover the final funeral costs (the cremation will be 19 months after death as mum left her body to the teaching hospital).

Having learned from my previous experience with my husband's estate, I filed all the paperwork in a sensible place, putting my identity papers back where they should go rather than leaving them with the estate papers. I'm sure that extra copy of my birth certificate that I had to order will come in useful someday. There is a temptation at the end to ram it all into a file and hide it away because you'll never need to look at it again but that's not a good idea if your identity documents are in it.

Mine was easy, I knew where everything was, the estate was well under the IHT threshold and was simple - house, car, a few shares and the majority on deposit. It all came to me and that made it easier too. I think I was fortunate with my choice of estate agent, I had the house valued by a valuer rather than an estate agent and I thought ahead and asked him if he would recommend anyone. It was a small local agency I'd never heard of and they really did earn their money. They did all the viewings (free), decided on an open house one weekend - they just got on and did their job. When I valued my own house as part of my husband's estate it was easier because I live on a 1980's estate and Zoopla turned up half a dozen recent sales of houses that were exactly like mine.

If I had to do it again I'd have a gardener so I could spend that couple of hours a week on clearing the house faster and I'd bring in the house clearance people earlier rather than trying to do it all myself. I have no regrets about applying for probate myself, I didn't find it difficult. If there had been IHT to pay I might have paid to have someone look over what I did in case there was something I could have claimed that I didn't know about.

Very sensible. You remind me that I still haven’t finished sorting through the ‘death’ files, although made a good start. I have gone with the ‘shoving the remaining paperwork in the spare bedroom and shutting the door’ approach. Still have quite a lot of late DH’s possessions to deal with too, but burnt out from going straight on to dealing with elderly DPs. I thought I would give myself this year off.

[Knotaknitter]

I did the same thing with the bank account, I'd had a joint account with mum which is where all the utility bills were paid from. It automatically passed to me, it meant that refunds could be paid back to the account that the utility providers already knew about. Everything went through there except for the shares which I transferred rather than sold. The solicitors were a bit huffy about using it for the proceeds of the house but as they'd known the account details for five months I was not interested in hearing objections three days before the sale. I was also not opening an executor account just for that, right at the end of the process, so we settled on them advising me to contact their probate department if I needed reminding of my duties as administrator. I was quite confident that I'd got the hang of it by then so I didn't.

I think the very last council tax refund also wanted to pay to the executor of, I rang them up and told them that it was technically an overpayment of the last month's DD which wouldn't have happened at all if they'd known about the sale date before that month's payment had gone through. There was some consultation and yes, a refund back to the bank account would be possible. In both estates I've done, calling and saying that there isn't an executor account has meant that an alternative means of payment became possible.

[pickledandpuzzled]

I'm sorry for your loss sandwich- I remember you well. I was there for a while as Dad was terminal and mum extremely difficult. All the lovely advice and support, I really appreciated.

I've been able to put barely anything into practice though as mum is still incredibly difficult!

We didn't manage PoA for him, she asked for it with about a month to go. We still don't have it for her!

We are in a better position with the ILs though still complicated.

I'll hang out and learn from you all though as I'll be needing this soon enough!

[GulesMeansRed]

I'm going through the "sadmin" - great term - at the moment. We are in Scotland so the process is completely different. There is no property to sell as it has always been held in mum's sole name which makes things easier. But because dad was so savvy with saving/investing we have to go through confirmation which is the same as probate in England. I'm at the contacting all the financial institutions and getting notifcation of all the accounts stage. We did speak to the lawyer who held the will and they wanted £195 + VAT per hour to do that.

Most companies seem to have the process well honed, mum was very vague about what accounts dad had in his sole name but knew they were with RBS, so I just filled in the forms online, told them the details I knew like name, DOB, address, and uploaded a photo of the will and his death certificate.

It is time consuming and difficult though. And will be even worse when mum dies. At that point I think I'll be paying the £195+ VAT per hour for someone else to do it for me.

[thesandwich]

Thank you all old friends@pickledandpuzzled @Knotaknitter lovely to see you and new friends@Whatevergetsyouthroughthenight @GulesMeansRed
This sort of info is brilliant. Was just contemplating executor account but you’ve all talked me out of it.
Thank you for all your wisdom, very much appreciated. 🌺🌺

[Whatevergetsyouthroughthenight]

By the way, a lot of organisations will happily pay you electronically.

Those that won’t are prone to also sending cheques of a size that won’t work if you try paying in cheques via a banking app. Nationwide Building Society have a form on their website you can print off, fill in and post to your local branch with the cheques. A 2nd class stamp was cheaper and easier than traipsing into town for me.

Shares if held on paper certificates are a bit of a nightmare, don’t tackle them on a day you are feeling particularly fragile.

If you have any paper shares to deal with (electronic are easier), watch out for the registrar failing to pay dividends to you that arise between date of death and probate. I had to call them and ask them to check, then had a fight (which I won) to get them to issue cheques for me for free (they tried telling me there was a charge of £60 for reissue of dividend cheques. I pointed out they had frozen payment and never issued the cheques in the first place).

[Whatevergetsyouthroughthenight]

Sorry, more things keep occurring to me. If you don’t have a direct line to a bereavement team, always ask before any dealings with anyone if they have a bereavement team. Much easier to deal with. Before calling any company, Google to see if there is a dedicated bereavement number, often queues are shorter with no IVR.

Invest in a set of wireless headphones for you phone if you can afford it and don’t already have any, you will spend a lot of time on hold or in queues, they allow you to multitask whilst waiting.

[MereDintofPandiculation]

Is there any guide as to how to even get started? I’d never even heard of an Executor’s account. I’m expecting to have two to do in the next 5 years, and I’m executor on another and possibly a 4th (one loses touch with these things).

[MereDintofPandiculation]

What do you do about valuing the contents of a house?

[Whatevergetsyouthroughthenight]

@MereDintofPandiculation

Is there any guide as to how to even get started? I’d never even heard of an Executor’s account. I’m expecting to have two to do in the next 5 years, and I’m executor on another and possibly a 4th (one loses touch with these things).

https://www.gov.uk/applying-for-probate

[Whatevergetsyouthroughthenight]

@MereDintofPandiculation

What do you do about valuing the contents of a house?

Sadly on the whole you will end up paying to get rid off house contents rather than them being worth anything. It makes a big difference if you are under or over Inheritance tax limits. If you are genuinely well under no-one really cares - just stick a nominal couple of thousand on the form. The whole point of probate seems to be to make sure that the government gets paid any inheritance tax due. If you are over the limit or borderline then get obviously valuable collections or objects valued by a specialist in whatever you are try to value or you can Google if it’s something easy to find online, just keep a note of where your information comes from.

[GulesMeansRed]

When you are valuing the contents you are valuing at selling rate, not what you’d pay to buy new. The lawyer told me that unless you have expensive jewellery, watches, art, antiques — the sort of stuff which was insured separately because of value - a nominal amount is fine.

[notaflyingmonkey]

Lots of good advice being given already here.

I completely wigged out after DM died and decided that I needed to do everything immediately, even though I was clearly in no fit state (but thought I was).

Something that I got told off for was in thinking that the POA still held after death - it doesn't, so Barclays froze DM's account - which means I can't pay into it (which is what I needed to do in order to consolidate all the bits and pieces), or out.

I had to go through the inheritance tax with HMRC, which I cocked up big time. My advice for anyone else who has to go down that route is to take your time and make sure you approach IHT400 with the due deference that it deserves. I'm fairly bright and fairly numerate, but managed to cut the red wire instead of the black and am still trying to unpick it nine months on.

I spend many hours on the phone to HMRC/Barclays and would recommend you have a dedicated note book to keep track of conversations / dates / actions.

[Borntobeamum]

My dad died last September and mum passed in February.
I am retired which has been fortunate as the ‘sadmin’ is ever consuming and their estate has been relatively simple.

My brother and I are the executor’s and opened an executor’s accounts and had their ‘bank’ money transferred to it.
Unfortunately you get a cheque book and nothing else. Not even internet banking.

I got probate organised quite easily and at the moment, their house has sold so awaiting completion.

The one nightmare has been The Prudential who have made my life miserable ever since dad died last year.
They have almost 70k of the estate and seem to want to hang on to it for dear life. I’ve had to get a financial advisor on board to decipher the forms.

We are waiting until every penny has hit the account, and then every bill has been paid in full before we allocate the estate.

Happy to answer any questions x

[FluffyFluffyClouds]

I did it for my late DM. But she was very organised, having had to deal with it for her mother, aunt, and grandmother herself.

I had a notebook and pen, a box file, and a bunch of cascading Todo lists in the Google Keep app. Everything I did or received - calls, visits, letters sent, forms filled in, monies paid out or in - went in the notebook.

I didn't get solicitors to do it for me, BUT I did pay them for advice on what the will meant exactly in some places and what actions they recommended I take, plus, sorting out the Land Registry forms which were less obvious because of a will trust.

In the course of events I may have to do it again 3 or 4 times. The trouble is that the scut work (gathering up all the accounts etc) you end up doing anyway!

I was a professional problem investigator (for a very niche area of software) and approached this in the same deliberate way : what do I know already, what do I need to find out, and what actions are required based on what I know right now? So I would have a main todo list with, say
"3. Sort house"
on it, then a "House" to-do list which would start with "Find out what to do about house" and then have more items added as I did so.

Friends who had been through it already were happy to give me tips.
Ironically the organisation with the most traditional procedures - Newbury Building Society, who got me to make an appointment and turn up with various specific documents - were the easiest. One and done. Halifax were happy to do stuff online or on the phone but screwed things up repeatedly.

[thesandwich]

Thank you all for your contributions- it’s really helpful in navigating this unknown territory, unscrambling decades worth of financial affairs plus dollops of grief and family stuff in good measure.
Good to see you @notaflyingmonkey ! Another caff vet!

[CockroachCluster]

Thanks for starting this thread thesandwich, we have 4 DPs between 85-95 so sadly this is likely to be an issue before too long.

There is some really useful advice already, thanks to those who have shared their experiences.

[HotelNotPortofino]

Hello

Joining in with a sigh of relief…

f*ck me it’s antiquated.
I seem spend days on hold, to be told they can’t speak to me but will write, by actual slow post, to DF’s former address for me to drive to to collect, open, scan, read, and call them back.

and repeat

[HotelNotPortofino]

I have almost finished DFs personal tax return.

but await two statements of interest by post, after doing ^^ today. That’s all I’ve done in 4 hours, request x2 figures that are probably very small, so I can finish his tax return

[HotelNotPortofino]

Why do I need an executor( or not as above 👏) account?

is there any particular reason if everything he had is coming to me? There is IHT to pay, solicitor working that out.

[thesandwich]

Hello @HotelNotPortofino good to see you here. Re account- is it that some institutions will only pay out into one? I’m trying without.🤞.

[funnelfan]

I’m sorry for the bereavements that mean everyone is here. We didn’t do Probate after dad died because he and mum left mirror wills leaving everything to each other, then it all comes to me and DB.

I’m in the middle of some paperwork for mum as LPA holder. Can I ask - are there any pointers to what I could be doing now that will make our lives easier when the inevitable happens? Anything you wish you’d known or sorted while your loved one was still alive? From an estate perspective obviously that is - I will take the emotional and grief side as complicated and difficult for all of us and leave it to one side.