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Elderly parents

Mum with dementia - sibling arranging sneaky POA & will

74 replies

LiverpoolLassie1974 · 24/01/2023 17:25

Long story so I'll try to be succinct without omitting anything which may be relevant.
Mum (82), widowed and lives alone. Has had Parkinson's for 15 years then diagnosed with associated dementia in 2018. Two daughters, me (48) and sister (52) both live nearby and both have chronic health conditions.
Mum had a health crisis in 2014 and after hospital discharge sister and I shared 24/7 care between us for a few months until she was well enough to manage alone with us continuing to share routine shopping & cleaning.
All fine until first lockdown in March 2020. I am self-employed and live alone so I volunteered to be in a "bubble" with Mum as she was clinically vulnerable and I virtually moved in taking on all tasks. This seemed to suit sister who at the time was working part-time in the NHS. A week or two in and sister was told to shield herself given her underlying health condition so she was at home on full-pay. During the following three months sister rarely phoned Mum and never contacted me to see how we were getting on. I sent a message asking her to please phone Mum a bit more often that she was doing and she took umbrage.

By July 2020 the easing of Covid restrictions meant that I could return to work which I was keen to do given that I had had no income whatsoever since March. I messaged sister to say that I would be restarting work and that she would need to take over Mum's care. My work involves mixing with large groups of public and it would have been considered risky for me to have then returned to Mum's potentially exposing her to Covid. Sister, I suspect had been quite enjoying lockdown, she is very insular, and she clearly did not want to do it, ignoring my calls and messages. She instead arranged for Mum to employ our cousin to take over the shopping, cleaning and laundry. Cousin was also working in other people's homes and had four children who were back at school so sister was knowingly allowing Mum to be exposed to Covid rather than step up and help Mum herself.

Mum's dementia progressed during this period and our cousin soon gave up. Sister, who was still refusing to communicate with me, immediately arranged for a SS assessment and paid carers were tasked with visits to Mum four times per day to administer medication and by now personal care was needed as Mum had become incontinent.

Current situation is sister visits Mum three times per week, I go the other four days with carers attending five time daily now. Sister declares that she is the "main carer" and she has locked away all Mum's medical & financial papers to which only she has access.
She has told the carers however that I am to be the first point of contact in any emergency and she has told Mum that she is not to phone her outside of her scheduled routine visits as she will not come out to her - Mum is to call me. Sister is very routine orientated and does not like to deviate or be disturbed.

Mum is deteriorating rapidly and really needs full-time care now. She is always very confused, literally has no short-term memory and needs constant reassurance. I have again tried to contact sister to discuss options i.e sharing full-time care again or possibly care home but she continues to ignore me.

Anyway, I have recently discovered that sister has had a solicitor to Mum's and a POA for both health and finances has been arranged and registered with my sister as sole attorney. I have seen the solicitor's letters confirming all of this.
The letters also mention a will but no details.
When I gently questioned Mum she said that she thinks she has signed a will naming sister as sole beneficiary and executor of her estate (currently consisting of house £300k & savings £250k and increasing due to high income and low outgoings).
Mum tells me that she thinks she has been stupid, she says she was told that she had to do it and that she just did what she was told. She has always previously refused to even consider preparing a will as she didn't think she needed one, she said that everything would by default be shared between both of us.
Obviously at this stage I don't know for definite if this is what sister has done as Mum clearly isn't certain and her copy of the will is with my sister, but the signs are there an other things are starting to ring alarm bells now. Thinking that maybe sister's reluctance to consider a care home could be because she has an eye on protecting her "inheritance", she has also been critical of Mum wanting to but any new clothes and spending any money on house maintenance. She has also told other members of the family that they are not to visit without arranging it through her when she can be present.
I know that none of us is owed an inheritance, it is Mum's money to do with as she sees fit and I would much rather she use it to provide comfort now whilst she is still here and it sickens me to think that my sister may have set her sights on getting as much as she can especially if it gives her a way of also "punishing" me. I know that this would not be what Mum would want.
I really don't want to "fight" my sister, I would much rather spend what time and energy I have making life easier for my Mum.
Any suggestions as how I should proceed will be gratefully considered.

OP posts:
Quitelikeit · 26/01/2023 09:59

Hope you get this sorted op

your sister has been very very sneaky and controlling

Dodecaheidyin · 26/01/2023 11:33

I am consulting my own solicitor totally independently, but wonder if I should also try and speak to the solicitor acting for Mum.

I don't think so, if he or she has done the work knowing your mum was incapable they're not going to be reasonable towards you, no matter what the legalities are.

I think you would be best to outline everything to your solicitor (might be worth writing it will down to save time as the longer you're there the more it'll cost), take all the paperwork you have available relevant to the case and let them advise you.

Soothsayer1 · 27/01/2023 12:00

Quitelikeit · 26/01/2023 09:59

Hope you get this sorted op

your sister has been very very sneaky and controlling

Yes she's stitched you up good and proper making sure that you do all the work and she gets all the money

Eastereggsboxedupready · 27/01/2023 12:04

In the meanwhile make sure you dm has everything she needs. Order online if necessary... And keep all receipts.

Hadalifeonce · 27/01/2023 12:09

My sister has named 2 of her 3 children as POA. The solicitor wrote to her 3rd child to advise them of that fact

MavisFlump · 27/01/2023 12:34

I wasn’t informed nor was the third sibling when my sister got POA for both my parents. All three of us were executors to their wills and that’s when even more appalling behaviours began.
She even put their house on the market unbeknown to two of us!
It’s absolutely sickening how some people behave, I’d never have thought my sister would behave like she has, and continues to do, 30 months further on.

trulyunruly01 · 27/01/2023 13:18

I'm the go-to person in my family for LPAs (and everyone knows and is quite content with that). However, a cousin once came to me to discuss cutting down on our (self-funded) aunt's care visits as it was costing £3k a month out of her savings accounts and "there'll be nothing left". Had to point out that that was quite likely, and rightly so. But Auntie X would continue to have her 4 visits a day with two carers since Auntie X had requested never to go to a hospital again and to die in her own bed. Families can be weird when £ is involved.
I'm currently enjoying the first period without a triggered LPA in 15 years.

SirTarquinasTrevelyan · 27/01/2023 13:51

The date this was done will be crucial.

I would as soon as possible if you haven't done it already get her GP to assess her for mental capacity so that you have some evidence at what date she was incapacitated. You need some evidence asap to record what her mental state is today.

So for example if the will was made in
Dec 2022
and you get her mentally assessed today (Jan 2023) as being not of full capacity to make a will/PoA then at least you have something to go on.

Otherwise what will happen is you'll take advice (which will take time), time will go by and before you know you are in a full on dispute 12 months later, your sister's position will be "ah yes but she was fine then when she made it" which will become very difficult to challenge after the event.

& yes go and see a lawyer immediately. Your mother if she is saying " she really doesn't know what she signed, couldn't even tell me who witnessed it." should say this to a solicitor - ideally an independent solicitor not one you are using - and when you aren't present.

. It would be a good idea to have a video recording of her saying this but you need to make sure that it is not created in any circumstances where it looks like you are pressuring her. If there is a friend or someone independent that she knows, you could ask them to talk to her about it when you aren't present and record the whole conversation. You want to remove anything that would lead to allegaitons that you have pressured her to say these things.

SirTarquinasTrevelyan · 27/01/2023 13:54

Actually ignore everything I've said in my post above and go to see a solicitor urgently. I've rethought it because it sounds like your mother may have some capacity to express her wishes (make it right) so trying to prove she has no capactiy at all without legal advice maybe counter productive.

It maybe better for you to say she has a bit rather than none - but take legal advice and speedily.

GoChasingWaterfalls · 27/01/2023 13:55

Hi, ring Adult Social Services and ask them to open a section 42 safeguarding adults enquiry into possible financial abuse. Adult social services can work with the OPG to investigate and establish your Mum's capacity.

LiverpoolLassie1974 · 26/12/2023 17:25

An update. My mum unfortunately died a few weeks ago and it is looking like I will be starting a contentious probate claim. Back in January I did take legal advice and the solicitor basically said that unless I suspected financial impropriety I should just let my sister get on with the POA as it was actually a lot of work and responsibility for her and that I should save my battle for any potential future probate claim. Even though my relationship with my sister has been fraught and I don't like her I never for one moment thought she would abuse Mum so decided to just watch and wait and do what I could for Mum in the meantime. For the last few months of her life my sister placed Mum in a care home and immediately changed the locks at Mum's house.
I have just managed to access Mum's bank statements for three years from July 2020 and I am heartbroken to see that over this period my sister has withdrawn over £25k in cash, all in multiples of £300 as the maximum allowed. It also looks like a payment has been made to clear my sister's outstanding mortgage. There is no reason that my Mum would have had any need to keep large amounts of cash. All her bills were paid by direct debit and are accounted for on her bank statements. The only other expense she would have had would have been for groceries and even though she liked M&S her appetite was minimal so she didn't need much. I have checked and it seems that the Office of the Public Guardian will not be interested given that Mum is now deceased so I am considering reporting the matter to the police. Does anyone have any experience? God, this is so bloody tragic, I think of the terrible way my Mum suffered with her deteriorating health these last few years and all along my "caring" sister was helping herself to Mum's cash.
Could this matter be included in the contentious probate or is it totally separate?

OP posts:
erniewernie · 26/12/2023 17:34

This reply has been withdrawn

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

thesandwich · 26/12/2023 17:45

@LiverpoolLassie1974 op, I am so sorry it has come to this and I am sorry for your loss. Can I suggest reposting your update in legal? There are lots of helpful legal folk on there.

Not19foreverpullyourselftogether · 26/12/2023 17:45

I would contact the police for advice as this is essentially theft. A crime reference number may be helpful leverage.
Your sister is a revolting human.

MyNameisMathilda · 26/12/2023 17:50

Sadly we had this situation in the family and there was nothing to be done re the family member taking 1000 a month from their parent. If they say "well they wanted to do it" then there is nothing you can do. There is no proof.

Are you planning on contesting the will? In our case the will was unsigned so intestacy applied.

HappyHamsters · 26/12/2023 17:59

Sorry about your mum. Poa ceases on death so if your sister moved her to a carehome either mum was happy to go or sister did this as poa saying mum had no capacity which will be on her carehome and gp records.someone would have undertaken a capacity assessment and signed the paperwork. Your sister may lie and say mum agreed to the cash and mortgage payments but she would have needed capacity to do that, who is executor of her will? They should have retained poa papers, bank statements etc. I would report this to the police.

Forgotmylogindetails · 26/12/2023 18:11

That’s financial abuse.

please call adult social care for your area and speak with them x

Lougle · 26/12/2023 18:22

I would have thought you need to contact the police and talk to them first. It sounds like fraud.

HappyHamsters · 26/12/2023 18:44

Her bank fraud dept may have some advice, if you're contesting the validity of her will that will be contentious probate, if you told your solicitor you suspected misuse or fraud the should have given you appropriate advice. Do you know who the executor or solicitor dealing with her estate is.

caringcarer · 26/12/2023 18:46

Once your Mum was diagnosed with dementia she would be considered unable to have been in sound mind to make a will. You need to see a solicitor to get it nullified. Get a solicitor to come out to visit your Mum.

HappyHamsters · 26/12/2023 19:04

Her mum recently died

rickyrickygrimes · 26/12/2023 21:09

Something similar happened with my dad and his sister. My gran’s will originally shared her estate jointly between her two children, but because my gran was living with my aunt she was able to get her to write a new will, despite being diagnosed with dementia. My dad knew nothing about it until the will was read after my grandmother died, leaving the bulk of her estate to my aunt. We also found out that my aunt had been helping herself to my grans money - paying for new furniture in my aunts house, car insurance for my cousins, shopping etc - my aunt claimed that my gran agreed to it all, while my gran was crying to my dad that she didn’t understand where all her money was going.

long story short, my dad hasn’t spoken to his sister for over 20 years now. She treated their mum like a cash machine and then cheated him out of half his inheritance.

Christmasnutcracker · 29/12/2023 13:01

I’m sorry for the loss of your mum OP.

Your situation is pretty common sadly. I can see a similar situation happening in our family. Fight it. Don’t make it easy for her.

Natles22 · 31/12/2023 06:31

"it is Mum's money to do with as she sees fit and I would much rather she use it to provide comfort now whilst she is still here "

Power of attorney is not the same as guardianship. So correct, your Mom makes her decisions until she can't. There is POA for medical, and POA for possessions. I'd make sure you have a budget. Moms monthly expenses: Rent, utilities, grocery, medication, etc.
Then variables: hygiene, clothing, entertainment, etc. have an agreement on what she can spend each month on these items. She needs a safety net for ER. and rest of her life. If you guys want to buy a CD for all the children or grandchildren, do so, be smart with the money but don't deprive mom.

You should have an account where her money goes each month, then move that amount for bills and spending to secondary acct. Put X amount in savings and do the same each month. This can be done with one back acct.

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