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Elderly parents

Mum with dementia - sibling arranging sneaky POA & will

74 replies

LiverpoolLassie1974 · 24/01/2023 17:25

Long story so I'll try to be succinct without omitting anything which may be relevant.
Mum (82), widowed and lives alone. Has had Parkinson's for 15 years then diagnosed with associated dementia in 2018. Two daughters, me (48) and sister (52) both live nearby and both have chronic health conditions.
Mum had a health crisis in 2014 and after hospital discharge sister and I shared 24/7 care between us for a few months until she was well enough to manage alone with us continuing to share routine shopping & cleaning.
All fine until first lockdown in March 2020. I am self-employed and live alone so I volunteered to be in a "bubble" with Mum as she was clinically vulnerable and I virtually moved in taking on all tasks. This seemed to suit sister who at the time was working part-time in the NHS. A week or two in and sister was told to shield herself given her underlying health condition so she was at home on full-pay. During the following three months sister rarely phoned Mum and never contacted me to see how we were getting on. I sent a message asking her to please phone Mum a bit more often that she was doing and she took umbrage.

By July 2020 the easing of Covid restrictions meant that I could return to work which I was keen to do given that I had had no income whatsoever since March. I messaged sister to say that I would be restarting work and that she would need to take over Mum's care. My work involves mixing with large groups of public and it would have been considered risky for me to have then returned to Mum's potentially exposing her to Covid. Sister, I suspect had been quite enjoying lockdown, she is very insular, and she clearly did not want to do it, ignoring my calls and messages. She instead arranged for Mum to employ our cousin to take over the shopping, cleaning and laundry. Cousin was also working in other people's homes and had four children who were back at school so sister was knowingly allowing Mum to be exposed to Covid rather than step up and help Mum herself.

Mum's dementia progressed during this period and our cousin soon gave up. Sister, who was still refusing to communicate with me, immediately arranged for a SS assessment and paid carers were tasked with visits to Mum four times per day to administer medication and by now personal care was needed as Mum had become incontinent.

Current situation is sister visits Mum three times per week, I go the other four days with carers attending five time daily now. Sister declares that she is the "main carer" and she has locked away all Mum's medical & financial papers to which only she has access.
She has told the carers however that I am to be the first point of contact in any emergency and she has told Mum that she is not to phone her outside of her scheduled routine visits as she will not come out to her - Mum is to call me. Sister is very routine orientated and does not like to deviate or be disturbed.

Mum is deteriorating rapidly and really needs full-time care now. She is always very confused, literally has no short-term memory and needs constant reassurance. I have again tried to contact sister to discuss options i.e sharing full-time care again or possibly care home but she continues to ignore me.

Anyway, I have recently discovered that sister has had a solicitor to Mum's and a POA for both health and finances has been arranged and registered with my sister as sole attorney. I have seen the solicitor's letters confirming all of this.
The letters also mention a will but no details.
When I gently questioned Mum she said that she thinks she has signed a will naming sister as sole beneficiary and executor of her estate (currently consisting of house £300k & savings £250k and increasing due to high income and low outgoings).
Mum tells me that she thinks she has been stupid, she says she was told that she had to do it and that she just did what she was told. She has always previously refused to even consider preparing a will as she didn't think she needed one, she said that everything would by default be shared between both of us.
Obviously at this stage I don't know for definite if this is what sister has done as Mum clearly isn't certain and her copy of the will is with my sister, but the signs are there an other things are starting to ring alarm bells now. Thinking that maybe sister's reluctance to consider a care home could be because she has an eye on protecting her "inheritance", she has also been critical of Mum wanting to but any new clothes and spending any money on house maintenance. She has also told other members of the family that they are not to visit without arranging it through her when she can be present.
I know that none of us is owed an inheritance, it is Mum's money to do with as she sees fit and I would much rather she use it to provide comfort now whilst she is still here and it sickens me to think that my sister may have set her sights on getting as much as she can especially if it gives her a way of also "punishing" me. I know that this would not be what Mum would want.
I really don't want to "fight" my sister, I would much rather spend what time and energy I have making life easier for my Mum.
Any suggestions as how I should proceed will be gratefully considered.

OP posts:
Nimbostratus100 · 25/01/2023 18:15

If you think the certificate provider was lying, then this is criminal fraud - but you need to know who the certificate provider is, when it was signed, and be very sure of your facts if you can show your mum wasn't capable at the time it was signed

Nimbostratus100 · 25/01/2023 18:17

honestly, there are multiple safe guards and witnesses to setting up POA, your sister hasn't snuck away and done this overnight on her own

Nimbostratus100 · 25/01/2023 18:18

I have done it, and it its simplest form, it took 5 of us in the room, and one person to take me outside and interview me alone,

Nimbostratus100 · 25/01/2023 18:19

and then it took 9 months to be processed, with several independent checks on the signatories during that time

Bluebottomedsheep · 25/01/2023 18:27

Get legal advice fast.

My brother tried to do exactly this but we (DS and I) were able to intervene and challenge the family Solicitor as to what she had done to check capacity.

She visited my Mother, had a conversation with her about Butterflies crawling up the wall and stopped the process of creating a new will / POA.

The previous Will / PO took precedence.

Obviously we were able to intervene at an earlier stage but I am pretty certain you have the ability to challenge on the grounds of capacity.

Although there was obviously money involved for us, my major concerns were the controls my DB was exerting over my DM and how those controls were diminishing her quality of life.

unfortunateevents · 25/01/2023 18:38

NotDavidTennant · 25/01/2023 18:12

Your mum can write a new will that supercedes the old one. It would be most unfortunate if she wrote your sister out... 😉

Nor legitimately now, if she was diagnosed with dementia in 2018.

ICanHideButICantRun · 25/01/2023 18:51

She's a piece of work, your sister, isn't she? I agree with everyone else - get immediate legal advice. I would also contact the POA office.

bigbluebus · 25/01/2023 18:56

As Plexie said as part of the PoA process you should have been informed and have 3 weeks to object if you thought that your Mother was being coerced into giving POA to your sister. This clearly hasn't happened so as others have said you need to contact the Public Guardianship office with your concerns.
With regards to the will, can you contact the solicitor who sent the letter and raise your concerns about your mother's mental capacity.

Nimbostratus100 · 25/01/2023 18:57

bigbluebus · 25/01/2023 18:56

As Plexie said as part of the PoA process you should have been informed and have 3 weeks to object if you thought that your Mother was being coerced into giving POA to your sister. This clearly hasn't happened so as others have said you need to contact the Public Guardianship office with your concerns.
With regards to the will, can you contact the solicitor who sent the letter and raise your concerns about your mother's mental capacity.

why would she have been informed?

Newlifestartingatlast · 25/01/2023 19:04

NotDavidTennant · 25/01/2023 18:12

Your mum can write a new will that supercedes the old one. It would be most unfortunate if she wrote your sister out... 😉

She can’t if she is not deemed mentally competent! The question is was she medically competent when she signed the previous will and LPOA

bigbluebus · 25/01/2023 19:05

@Nimbostratus100 Section 6 of the LPA form is 'People to notify when the LPA is registered'. It is optional but described as being a step to let people know you are registering an LPA so they can raise any concerns they may have eg pressure or fraud. Other family or close friends are recommended but it can't be the attorney. If this step didn't happen, given that there are 2 sisters both close by and helping to care for their mother, I feel sure the PGO would be very interested in the fact this step didn't happen given the Mother's state of health and the clear cut controlling behaviour of the sister who is attorney who no doubt told the Mother that this step wasn't needed.

RaininSummer · 25/01/2023 19:06

I was informed when my mum did poa for my dad. Had to sign something to say I was aware and it was ok.

Nimbostratus100 · 25/01/2023 19:08

I never notified anyone when I set up POA - totally unnecessary, additional paperwork, more hold up, more complication, and you dont have to do it. Its just if you want someone informed that poa is being activated. You are not required to

Malbecfan · 25/01/2023 19:58

I was notified when my sister set up the LPAs for DF. Unfortunately the notification doesn't state how the LPA is set up, but I know I am an attorney for DF. I think I had 2 or 3 weeks to object.

Nimbostratus100 · 25/01/2023 20:04

But that is because you are the attorney, obviously it is checked that you really have agreed - it isn't the same as listing people to be informed, who are not in any way involved

Nimbostratus100 · 25/01/2023 20:06

maybe the OPs sister has done something fraudulent, I dont know, but nothing at all in the information provided indicates anything other than a POA set up in the normal way, completely legally, and with the mums permission, or at her instigation

WiseUpJanetWeiss · 25/01/2023 20:31

My DM set up her LPA using my friend (my DM's friend's daughter) as certificate provider and my brother and me as attorneys. My friend didn't speak to DM alone, but it was clear that my DM wanted us to do this so we could "sort things out for her" (she was physically disabled and had some minor communication issues following a stroke many years previously).

It would absolutely have been possible to have railroaded my DM (well not my actual DM, but someone with dementia) and found someone dubious/foolish to act as certificate provider. I really don't think this process is as secure as others say.

You need legal advice.

Mum5net · 25/01/2023 20:38

I thought the same as @WiseUpJanetWeiss
MIL’s poa was completely above board but I remember thinking it was open to abuse

MrsMorton · 25/01/2023 20:44

Agree with pps about speaking to the office of the public guardian and your local authority adult safeguarding team.

Nimbostratus100 · 25/01/2023 20:51

The crux of the matter is, who was the certificate provider, did they interview your mum on her own away from your sister?

WiseUpJanetWeiss · 25/01/2023 21:08

Nimbostratus100 · 25/01/2023 20:51

The crux of the matter is, who was the certificate provider, did they interview your mum on her own away from your sister?

How is OP to identify the certificate provider if her sister won't even talk to her about it? Are they available online somewhere?

LiverpoolLassie1974 · 25/01/2023 22:47

Thank you all for your comments and thoughts and sorry to see that this sort of thing is quite common. I know that I do need to take formal legal advice pronto and this is in hand.

I've spoken to Mum again tonight and we both got upset which was awful, and she says she wants to try and make things right. Listening to her tonight trying to explain and she honestly hasn't a clue, she really doesn't know what she signed, couldn't even tell me who witnessed it. I gather that she thought, or was led to believe, that she had to have both a will and a POA together and that they "had to match"!

I am consulting my own solicitor totally independently, but wonder if I should also try and speak to the solicitor acting for Mum. I am a bit wary of this as they will have been commissioned by my sister, and I know they would only speak to me with Mum there (they'd have to come to her house again as she is virtually immobile) or with her signed authority and I wonder if even then they would have to involve sister with her currently having the POA. Also I suspect that Mum's solicitor would then have to outline her options in writing and sister is likely to open the post. As far as as I'm aware I don't think my sister knows that I know yet and I don't want her to know that I'm on to her just yet until I am clear of the full situation and what options are available to me.
Regarding dates, the first time solicitor visited Mum was mid March last year with a follow up in mid April which is when I assume documents were signed. The POA was registered late September. I, or anybody else, would only have been notified of the application if Mum had asked us to be, she says she wasn't aware of this.

I just cannot for the life of me see how anyone, let alone a solicitor, could have deemed her as having capacity, yet as I understand it the legal position is that capacity has to be assumed unless it has been certified otherwise. Mum hasn't been able to even manage her own medication for the past three years hence carers visiting 5 x daily to oversee this - how can this person be considered at the same time sufficiently competent to sign such an important document as a POA and assign potentially £500k of assets in a will??
Also Mum has been exempt from paying Council Tax since 2019 on the grounds of living alone with a severe mental impairment which if I remember correctly had to be countersigned by her GP. I wonder if this fact would help back up any claim of mental incapacity?
Anyhow, I am speaking to a solicitor on Friday after which I'll update.
Thanks again

OP posts:
MereDintofPandiculation · 26/01/2023 09:32

unfortunateevents · 25/01/2023 18:38

Nor legitimately now, if she was diagnosed with dementia in 2018.

Depends how early in the illness her dementia was diagnosed.

MereDintofPandiculation · 26/01/2023 09:38

Mum hasn't been able to even manage her own medication for the past three years hence carers visiting 5 x daily to oversee this - how can this person be considered at the same time sufficiently competent to sign such an important document as a POA and assign potentially £500k of assets in a will?? Capacity isn’t an all or nothing. Someone can be incapable of the organisation, attention to detail, and short term memory while still retaining the capacity to make a will or grant PoA

MereDintofPandiculation · 26/01/2023 09:38

… short term memory to manage medication….