What would you do

[MyPurpleHeart]

So this isn't about my parents it's about my grandparent

DGM is almost 100 and after losing my DGF 5 years ago she's living in absolute squalor, but it's refusing any help to the point where she's threatening to kill herself if we do anything

Her house is big and old, her heating broken and she won't let us fix it or let anyone in the house to fix it. The same for her washing machine, hot water, bathtub and upstairs sink. Her house is cold, dirty and to be frank a horrible experience to visit.

She has plenty of money stored away in the bank, enough to leave that house and life her years in absolute comfort. More so I wish she would, I wish she would sell up and spend her money living her last years happy warm and comfortable but she won't. She hates the thought and when I discuss options with her she says that if we so much as bring a plumber in she will take all of the pills she has in the house and kill herself.

I've spoken to adult social services and begged them to get involved and they have refused. She is mentally well so they can't force her to do anything. I've asked them to come and see the house and they won't. They say if she wants to live that way they can't do anything to stop her.

We try and muddle on as best we can, each family member visits weekly and cleans up as much as possible and takes groceries. She won't go out to shop nor give anyone access to her bank card so she has to be taken to a cash point and then gives us the cash to pay her bills on our cards rather than set up a direct debit. When asked if she wanted someone to have access to her account to sort her bills I was accused of trying to steal her money in the middle of a busy NatWest on a Saturday morning

The whole situation is miserable and I can't do it anymore. I'm currently 4 months pregnant and can't carry on doing this when the baby comes (DGM lives 90 minutes drive away) which just places more of a burden on my parents who are in their 70s and also 90 minutes drive away from DGM.

Any advice would be appreciated, I'm at my wits end and just don't know what to do anymore.

I’m afraid social services are right. She is allowed , as long as she understands the possible consequences , to live as she wishes including making unwise choices.

it’s so hard to watch though x

It is really ,really hard. I’ve never experienced this personally but I work as a nurse and I see issues with the elderly refusing help/not accepting change in circumstances all the time. Unfortunately as she does have capacity social services cannot help. If you have capacity you can make ‘unwise’ decisions and live life however you please. It doesn’t make it any easier for you though!
Does she give reasons why she doesn’t want anyone coming in or anything fixed? I’m assuming the bills thing is a suspicion of online banking etc. Have a frank discussion with her about it, about how you will be busy when baby comes and less able to visit. You won’t be bringing baby to her house due to the conditions but she is welcome at yours. Decide how much you are willing to do and stick to it. Sadly it may be a fall or illness or a catastrophe that is the only thing that will result in change if she cannot see the need currently.

Your DGM is entitled to live how she pleases. She has different standards to you but that is her business.

Your parents have to decide how much assistance they can give, and the best you can do is keep an eye on that, and encourage them to reduce help, to the point your DGM is forced to compromise.

On cash, my DM was the same about her bank card so I used to take money to her and she gave me a cheque. It saved taking her out if she wasn't feeling up to it.

I'm sorry but it's not different standards. Shes filthy dirty. Her clothes are soiled, and she has no washing machine. It's actually unsanitary. I wouldn't let my dog live like that, you have no idea how hard it is to watch my grandmother in this state.

At her age I honestly would leave her be. If people coming in and changing her things around causes her stress, it just isn’t worth pursuing it. There is probably a reason for it. Maybe she feels to clean and move things around will wipe away her late husband in some way. Has she only been like this since her husband died or was she like it before?.
I would let her live how she wants to in order to protect her mental health. If you all find her home unbearable I would either see her by taking her out of the house and taking her somewhere or only see her at your own homes instead.

Would she pay for a carer to come & help her?

You say she has mental capacity but this does make me wonder.

Of course it’s different standards. She’s literally rather die than have you interfere in her life, and that’s her choice. If you can’t cope with her house then the only solution is to stop going there. I see it occasionally as a carer. There’s one house we go to where I’m apparently the only carer who’s gone in there and not immediately vomited with the smell. The daughter has power of attorney though and we’re only allowed to do his personal care, she says she’ll ‘take care’ of the cleaning, which she bloody doesn’t. Funny thing is (well isn’t really) is that she’s a social worker. As sick as this sounds I’m actually looking forward to the day he passes, for his sake as well as mine, and I don’t have to visit that festering shit pit anymore.

We had a similar situation with an elderly relative a few years ago. Clothes and body were filthy, wouldn't allow anyone to help in any way and wouldn't consider moving out. Over the course of a few weeks she suddenly deteriorated to the extent my mum had to spend an hour on the phone with her every morning talking her through the steps required to get dressed and mum and my aunt would spend every evening with her pleading with her to come and stay for a few nights. It was an hour's drive each way and she would be really unpleasant to them. Then one morning mum couldn't reach her on the phone. The next door neighbour found her back door wide open but no answer when she called. My dad drove straight there and they found her in bed with no idea of time or who they were.

She agreed to go and stay with her niece for a few weeks "until the weather improves" but within days she was in hospital with a chest infection where she fell and broke her hip, contracted MRSA and died. It was such a sad end for such a loved lady. We would all have done anything we could to improve her life but she wouldn't let us.

OP, write everything out in one letter or email which you copy to your grandmother's GP and to Adult Social Services. Make it clear that you are pregnant and cannot provide support. Then, you'll have done all you possibly can with the authorities.

Talk to your parents again. What do they think of the situation? Make it clear to them you won't be in a position to provide support, certainly after your eight month stage and thereafter for years! You have a baby to think of.

Could your grandmother move in with your parents? Would she go there for a 'visit'? If not, they need to be thinking of how to get her into a care home. That's down to them, it's not your responsibility.

Let's say grandma continues to refuse everything. If that happens, you have to leave her to it.

My dad was like your grandma. Then he fell, and was probably lying there overnight before my brother got the feeling something was wrong, went round to the house and found him. Dad was ill in bed for weeks and had to accept help. My brother and I sorted out his house, and I became his daily carer. From another thread on mn recently, I think I might be saving him more than £800 a month with the work I do. But you can't put yourself forward to do that for your grandmother - you 've got other stuff going on, leave it to her own child.

Good luck. I hope your grandmother thinks better of it, but I suspect her mind is going a little and she just thinks everyone is after her money. That happens a lot.

@StopStartStop I agree it's not OPs responsibility to cajole her DGM into a care home, but neither is it her 70+ DPs.

She is still probably happier than she would be in a care home and at almost 100, maybe she just needs to be made as comfortable as she will allow in her own home.If that's not very comfortable at all, well there are worse things.

I know it's hard to watch but to be honest if she has got to 100 her lack of cleanliness etc obviously hasn't harmed her to date. Only do what you are prepared to do and otherwise let her life her life how she chooses, even if you feel that is unwise.

Do you think her reasoning is that she doesn't want things done, or is it financial in that she doesn't want to spend the money. If the second one you could look at paying a cleaner for a couple of hours a week and lying to say that they were provided by social services.

If she doesn't already have them I would buy her a couple of the safest possible portable electric heaters so that you know she has some safe heat in the house (doesn't matter if it costs £££ in electricity as she's got enough in the bank). I would also investigate the option of an electric hot water urn with the temperature turned down a bit (for safety) so that she has hot water for dishes and washing a bit even if she refuses repairs. I might tell her they are provided by the council for older people because of the cost of living and that everyone has them.

If you're really worried about the heating its a bit morally dubious but in your position I would tell her you've been looking at boiler fixes on the internet and offer to have a look at her boiler myself. Have a couple of "gos at fixing it" and then tell her you need to get a bit for it. The have your mum take her out to get coffee / money / shopping whilst you get a plumber in to fix it behind her back.

These solutions aren't easy, and I appreciate that lying is problamatic, but I hope that when I'm that age if I'm that irrational someone will lie to me in order to do their best for me.

Possibly, @rookiemere

She might agree to have one part of the house tidied, perhaps. It's worth a try.

My dad's house is immaculate now, but he won't go out and to be fair he's like a care home resident but in isolation. He watches television, has a cup of tea and a cake, that sort of thing. It's how he wants it.

Is there anyone she would listen to - sometimes people will if it’s a GP? Would someone like that tell her it’s risking her health to have no heating and water?

I agree you should be very straightforward with her and your family that you have to withdraw from providing any help very soon.

Have you called her GP ? She sounds like she needs a mental capacity assessment, as whilst seems “with it” she is not making logical choices. I accept you can’t change the way she wants to live, but you can change how much you get involved with it. You are now pregnant and could catch something nasty from the home, so you need to be very careful. Perhaps call a family meeting and get your parents to decide on a plan and get the GP involved?

She is 100 years old. Leave her be. She is living her life.

How were things before DDF died? Was she near and tidy or has she always lived in squalor?

Thank you all so much for your help. Before my grandfather died the house was clean, warm, welcoming, lovely. But he got to 97 and had some falls and was taken into a home. They had to pay for it, and she was so so angry at how much it cost (they could easily afford it) and still is. Even to this day she rants at how much money she spent when he was in the home and he's been gone 4 years.

She has access to more money than you can imagine, and ive explained to her many times that whatever she wants can be done. Shes afraid of moving so I told her I will do it all. We will choose a flat with a warden if she still wants independence. We can pick a home together, or we can move her into a little bungalow somewhere with all of the mod cons. But she refuses.

The GP made a home visit to do her booster jab and commented on how cold the house was and asked her if she would consider moving to the home and from what she's said he was swiftly asked to leave with some very colorful language.

I know I can't force her and the last thing I want to do is make her unhappy at nearly 100, but selfishly I want to go to sleep at night knowing she is safe and warm and not alone.

Ill see my parents tonight and chat through some of the suggestions here and see if anything more can be done. Thankyou again

Sorry hes been gone 5 years, he was in the home for a year before he died

I’m sorry you’re in this situation. Unmumsnetty hugs.

My mother is a very messy & frankly lazy, she’s only 76 but her home was becoming unliveable. It was filthy, mouldy & causing further infections.

It was actually fortuitous she had a fall 2 months ago & was in hospital for 6 weeks as the family went in every weekend & worked our arses off making her home liveable without her continuous yelling if we had tried when she was present.

Unfortunately, adult social services are right. Mum has deemed by them to have capacity, so there was nothing they could do to help her (except add a couple of adaptations, hand rails & such).

She did back down & agreed to a free 4 week carer visit on her discharge & I have now taken over a (paid) carer role for an hour a day (although in reality much more) to help with medications (she was non compliant before, adding to the problems),cleaning & encouraging her to shower/look after her personal hygiene. I’m exhausted because I’m working as well, but she seems more settled & happier. She did have the money to have private carers, but she didn’t like strangers in her home so boom, as the closest it’s fallen to my husband & I.

Having a Dad 200 miles away living in the same squalor as your Gran was heartbreaking (again, deemed to have capacity) & after he suffered a fall too we persuaded him to move to a local to us care home. It was only because we had professional back up in the hospital to gently persuade him it’d be for the best we could do this though. Even then, he refused to walk again, had crippling depression (he’d refused treatment for it for decades) and was then in & out of hospital with blood clots due to not moving around. And still he was deemed to have capacity so there was nothing we or the care home staff could do to get him antidepressants or encourage him to move. In fact, he only lost capacity 4 days before his death this year when we went into a coma!

I understand & fully support the idea of mental capacity, but for families who have relatives who have capacity residing in unliveable conditions it is a double edged sword.

One thing that's leapt of at me is all your suggestions to her are about moving (understandably) could you change the focus to getting the house sorted. So mending the boiler, then getting the other things washing machine, sink, hot water and bath tub fixed. It might still not be to the high standards but will be more liveable and she may go for that if the pressure is off her to move.

The way she lives works for her. It is her choice. It is her right to live like this if she wants to. You might hate it and think it’s squalid and that it must be horrible but that’s your problem not hers.

She is nearly 100. She does not have a lot of time left however much you force her to change her ways. Let her be, let her make her own decisions, and let her enjoy your company if you can.

Op you can request a welfare home check from social services. Ask for a home assessment on her mental ability .

It is really hard to watch though when someone you love makes poor choices.

I want to go to sleep at night knowing she is safe and warm and not alone.

It's not selfish, it's caring and kind. I understand. That's what I want for my dad at 90, to feel safe, loved and not pushed out. You're in a very awkward position but you must put yourself and your baby first.