Reason for a Social Care Needs Assessment

[Hmmph]

Parent with Alzheimer's being looked after by other parent (although struggling)

Savings of more than £24,000, do would be self funding. Council and therefore currently saying they won't do an assessment.

Do we need to fight the council to get a social care needs assessment? What will it do/show? Will it help? Is there a drawback to not getting one?

Thank you to anyone who can give me some help advice. I don't have the energy to fight if there isn't a good reason to.

That's very odd. They did a needs assessment for my parent despite being self funding and put me in touch with recommended car agencies. Other medical conditions rather than dementia though. We also got an OT assessment off the back of it.

The cut off for self-funding is £23,500, so I’d spend £500 on something useful for the house and then go back to the council and ask again.

Ah, sorry, just seen you said more than £24,000, so that won’t work.

everyone is legally entitled to a Care Act assessment whatever their financial position. The council are well aware of this but try to wriggle out of assessing self funders.
Stand your ground and tell then you are aware of this.

For my mum they did the needs assessment before considering the finances.

This is so frustrating. Firstly make sure you have Power of Attorney for both of them for both Finance and Health because unfortunately, you are going to have to 'shout'. We have come to learn that it is 'he who shouts loudest gets the results.

Because of your Father's healthcare needs, he may be entitled to Continuing Health Care funding, but it is unbelievably difficult to get but doesn't mean to say he isn't entitled. Contact Beacon, because they give great advice about this.

www.beaconchc.co.uk/

Use all resources that are available to you, speak to his GP and/or the Community Matron, Memory clinic, and continue to ring Adult Social Care. All of these agencies do have Multi-Disciplinary Team meetings so if could be raised there.

Speak to AgeUK and Dementia UK and also their MP.

Make sure he is getting all the benefits he is entitled to such as Attendance Allowance, which isn't Means Tested.

For my Mum, we ended up paying for an Elder Care Consultant who was brilliant because whilst we had to spend some of Mum's money the consultant paid for herself many times over.

It is appalling the way in which Dementia patients are treated and you have to fight constantly for something that should just be a given. He is entitled to care so, I know it feels like you want to hit your end against a brick wall a lot of the time, but don't give up.

Good luck.

Thank you for all your advice. There is a PoA in place thankfully.

It's not so much about the money. At this stage there is enough to pay for the care he needs/ they need we think. Although she obviously will need to have money to be able to look after herself and to be able to live in their home so can't sell that...

But everything seems to say Get a Social Care Needs Assessment from the council. And I know the Law says you are entitled to one irrespective of funding. But what does the Assessment do? Will it tell us what care he should currently have ideally and where we go to get it? Are there any other benefits of getting this assessment or drawbacks of we do get one and just muddle through on our own?

It's "just" dementia problems at the moment (frustration, wandering, not able to be left, anxiety etc) and no other physical or health needs (so no incontinence...yet). So basically I think they just need some help with someone to supervise him sometimes so she can have a break. But that's my not-knowing-anything assessment not a professional one.

Is it worth the fight to get the council to come?

You are right. There is no help for Alzheimer's at all. You seem to be given the diagnosis and sent away. The NHS doesn't care and there is no Social Care. He can't get better, but I want to do the best for him and her but I don't know what that is :(

Everyone is entitled to a care needs assessment and a carers assessment, this information may help you.

www.dementiauk.org/get-support/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI_qrvrvPS-gIVm-3tCh0p4QIVEAAYASACEgKUyPD_BwE

www.carersuk.org/help-and-advice

Your parents are absolutely entitled to a care act assessment and a carers assessment so do push for one.
Does the memory service that diagnosed the dementia have any support / sign posting services? Do you have access to an Admiral Nurse service (google this)?

Yes it's worth the fight, OP. Good luck

Also does your parent get attendance allowance? That's none means tested so you should absolutely apply for that.

If you get nowhere with social services try their g.p. practice, ours have an elderly early intervention unit to help people in these circumstances.

Absolutely they are entitled to an assessment, irrespective of funding. It won't (probably) result in anything useful but I found it a lot easier to be firm with my parents about getting carers when someone else had said it was needed. But more importantly, it gets them in the system so that if the wheels fall off then SS have already done all their assessments. So for instance when my dad was admitted to hospital, as my mum had already been assessed as unsafe to be left, SS found her a care home place for respite within hours - even though SS had nothing to do with the carers that mum had privately

The benefits of having one is that they do it every day so they are better at identifying needs than you are. They may identify things that you just don't see because of the work arounds that are already in place. Banister rails, fall alarms, bathing aids, grab rails, toilet risers - there are lots of things that can make life easier but not if you don't know they exist.

Put it in writing that you are asking for an assessment under whatever bit of legislation it is and wait for the response.

Pressed enter too soon. There will be a target response time so if you don't get a reply you can complain about the lack of a reply. After that you can use the council's complaints procedure but I doubt it will come to that.

Savings of more than £24,000, do would be self funding. Council and therefore currently saying they won't do an assessment

are you absolutely certain they said they wouldn't do a Care Act assessment due to your parents being over the financial threshold?

Because that would be very unlawful of them.

plus your parents get the threshold each so if they both have social care needs and their finances are joint then actually they would need to have over £48000 between them to be over the funding threshold. That's just in savings and doesn't include the value of their property if they are still living in it.

ring and ask again, anyone is entitled to a Care Act Assessment regardless of income or savings. If you really have been told otherwise then that needs flagging with the local authority because they need to retrain whoever is answering the phones.

a lot of authorities will strongly advise that if you have the financial means to do so to just crack on and arrange it yourself though rather than waiting for a care act assessment though...

I've RTFT

Parents may be entitled to for an assessment of needs for care and support and a carers assessment under the Care Act 2014, if they appear that they may meet 3 part criteria for eligibility 1.need, 2.outcome and 3. wellbeing criteria lists. So the LA call taker will screen if likely to be eligible and signpost if not.

From carers assessment, a limited amount of Carers services might not be chargeable, so if dad can't be left alone at all even for an hour due to high risks from his dementia (such as burning things, wandering out getting lost looking for mum) , then a carers assessment might lead to some type of carers service/ take a break service of a few hours a week.

If dad has needs for care and support- his care will be chargeable, which is why you don't actually need the social care assessment if you can arrange and he can pay for care as a self funder (over £23,250 threshold). So the LA will signpost you to websites of lists of care agencies and other services. Have a look on those.

Post covid- social care and NHS services are overwhelmed & have increasingly long waiting lists, so someone who could arrange something privately is not in same life or limb crisis as others with far higher needs, who are without supportive family nor resources.

Yes you can have a social care assessment report to tell you what care to arrange but as a sensible family you could do that yourselves and quickly without waiting unnecessarily.

You'll have MNers talking about your entitlement to a Care Act 2014 assessment on here (as I have done) but IRL social care and NHS are trying to juggle keeping the most high needs people alive and safe and are working flat out and long hours. So whether you're entitled to assessment one or not that you, they are screening those who are most urgent and asking or you really urgently need one right now rather than just 'would like' one or may need one in the future.

When you are self funder you pay full cost of your care and also extra brokerage fees, and still get told what care you'll have , by whom and when- so as a family you'd be more in control if you privately arrange the care support for what may be similar cost

@BetterCare

There is nothing in OPs post that indicates what her dads care or nursing needs are - CHC eligibility is set extremely high

I really don't understand PPs randomly suggest everyone approaches these private organisations to pursue unnecessary CHC applications. MDTs in the community are busy enough.

OP was asking about a social care assessment not a CHC assessment.

Thank you everyone for your answers. There is a lot to look into and think about. I am out at the moment, but I am going to thoroughly read through and think about all of your points and comments and look into everything you have signposted.

I just wanted to thank you all for taking the time to give me this help and advice. It means so much.

They may also be able to point you to technology solutions (reminders to take tablets, tracking device that can be slipped into a shoe etc) and to support for carers.

@Tiani4 Firstly I said "maybe" entitled to. A lot of people don't look at CHC assessments because many people have never heard of Continuing Health Care.

I am fully aware of how difficult it is to get CHC funding because I went through the process with my Mum and have quite a lot of experience from start to finish with how it works and what the CHC Framework involves. In the end, because of organisations like Beacon, our own research, an elder care consultant and Adult Social Care we managed to get a 24 x 7 package for my Mum despite CHC fighting all the way.

Also, I am not sure what private organisations you mean because Adult Social Care, Community Matrons and GPs are not private organisations and Beacon is funded by the NHS.

An elder care consultant is private, but I only recommended one because they helped my brother and me with both parents a huge amount.

MDTs are there for the purpose of ensuring that patients in the community are receiving the correct level of care, so busy or not they have a responsibility.

So there was no random throwing out any suggestion I come from having a huge amount of experience over the last five years of dealing with all of these public organisations for both parents.

So OP please don't be put off. If your father has primary health care needs that fit with the CHC Framework then he is entitled to an assessment and may be entitled to a care package. So please ring Beacon because firstly they are amazing and very helpful and also what they are funded to do.

@Tiani4 Don't just come at people because you don't like the advice they give to OP. Most people respond on these boards because they have been through the experience and are able to offer valuable support and advice.

Once again OP good luck going forward.

@BetterCare

Also, I am not sure what private organisations you mean because Adult Social Care, Community Matrons and GPs are not private organisations and Beacon is funded by the NHS.

That is a bizarre sentence bettercare, as no one said Adult social care GPs or ' community matrons' are private organisations?!

Beacon, however, is a private organisation run by "Ethical Legal Services Ltd" a limited legal company (who btw charge CHC casework clients after doing some initial free advice, similar to solicitors "initial free 30 mins advice". It's great you found them helpful but all do this is a derail about a simple question OP asked )

As I said earlier (& politely!) ^^ that it isn't helpful to suggest CHC assessment at this stage to OP. Nothing nothing she /he described would warrant it & you risk unnecessarily confusing the matter and overwhelming OP at a time she's asking for clear, relevant advice.

OP asked about social care assessment.

I agree with previous posters that a social care assessment is helpful because they have far more experience of the situation than you do so can help you work out what you need. But if there is a long wait to get one you can also get good advice from a care agency. We spoke to two for my mum - one was uninterested and unhelpful (I think we were out of area for them so would have been difficult to staff but it would have been better if they had just said that if true) but the second was really good and helped us work out a schedule that turned out to be less (and therefore cheaper) than we had first asked for but exactly what was required. The agency was also very helpful in telling us what to ask/ push the OTs for in terms of equipment - again this was very helpful as we just didn’t know what was available or how to access it. Good luck

When I was struggling to sort things out for an elderly relative with dementia I found AgeUK were the most help. They gave me advice, helped with form filling and just made me feel supported.

In my experience private care agencies are perfectly capable of doing fair care assessments and won't expect a council assessment to have been done first (and the vast majority will reassess anyone who's had an assessment from the council anyway).

Your dad will have a service of some sort like Dementia Navigators - phone the Alzheimers Society Dementia Connect, or your local council, or his GP (although in my experience they are pretty useless) or the memory clinic he was assessed at, or just google local Alzheimers Cafes or day centres and ask them - they are invaluable sources of local information and advice.