In sickness and in health

[MahMahMahMahCorona]

There’s a ridiculously long backstory but in summary:

Over the past few years I have gone very low contact with my parents. On occasion, DMs behaviour reminds me just why those boundaries are platinum and very high.

DF had a stroke / bleed on the brain last year. Hasn’t been quite the same since. Never been ill before. Looks like onset of dementia now, along with other various age (80) and lifestyle related ailments.

DM is an absolutely awful carer — because it isn’t about her —. Awful. No patience. Complains all the time. She nags, he ignores. She can’t cope with how different life is (he seems fine when I've seen him, just a little slower, more hard of hearing, doesn't do well in big groups, and he is a little more forgetful than usual). He’s always done and managed everything, and now she’s having to do life admin. Thing is - she won’t leave him. None of us are allowed to spend time with him alone. She has to be involved. Has to take him everywhere which he finds exhausting and she finds draining. So she complains even more.

As children, how do we cope with this? She’s like a petulant child herself (I’ve known this for a long time so really, I’m looking for ways my siblings can help support her because I’ve taken a back seat behind my boundaries). I imagine at some point I’ll have to speak up because the way she speaks to / about DF is atrocious. You wouldn’t think it had only just been a year - you’d think she’s been looking after him for 20…

Seems like she forgot the "in sickness" part of the marriage vows.

AIBU to ask for coping mechanisms? What can we do? She probably needs counselling on a major scale to work through her own issues and actually learn how to be kind and compassionate….

Your DM is Elderly, she's not going to change.
Your DF may seem ok to you, but not be as good behind closed doors.
I'd mostly ignore it as much if she can, challenge her if she says something you don't agree with.
Also have some compassion for her. The man she loves has dementia, she's trying to start doing things she hasn't done before. She's likely worried about her own ageing.

Thanks Rookie. Having some perspective is helpful. It just seems very premature for her to already be sick of the situation. Doesn't bode well if it goes on for several years...

Contact SS and get some carers in

Caring for someone is vvvv hard work especially if you older.
Don't underestimate this.
Can you arrange for a cleaner, food delivery, meals cooked to help.
Also if a carer it's very important the carer can have a bit of time to themselves.
This is a shock to your DM that the man she loves your df needs support now.
Must make her realise she aging too.

Also have some compassion for her. The man she loves has dementia, she's trying to start doing things she hasn't done before. She's likely worried about her own ageing.

This. Until you’ve been in her position, you have no idea what she’s going through, though it wouldn’t hurt you to try to have some empathy. A year is plenty enough to feel utterly overwhelmed and ground down by her situation.

Given than you’ve apparently washed your hands of the situation other than posting on here to get advice for your siblings to deal with your parents, I think you could stand to be a bit less judgemental.

Ugh. Like I say there's a huge backstory hence LC.

Not to mention that I was a carer for my own XDH for eleven years, and still am a carer for my DC12 and 10 (there's the first drip feed). I know how shit it can be.

They have cleaners a concierge and a dog walker. Food parcels might be a novel idea. Might look into Gousto or equivalent. Thank you to a PP for suggesting that.

I think most of us would be stressed if we had to look after our dhs for a month not to talk of a year. Add in being old yourself, seeing your life partner incapacitated, fear of the future etc and its no wonder your dm is overwhelmed. We all close our minds to the fact we may have to care for our partner and hope for the best.
Helping out in practical ways is best and maybe bringing your mom out for lunch while another family member minds your dad. Just in little ways make her life better as its a very tough situation she is in and she needs support.

Is she up in the night with him? Just that single thing without all of the rest is enough to make someone very irritable and demoralised.

I’m not surprised she’s passed off ! She needs to vent.

*pissed

OP you may find it helpful to post in the Elderly Parents topic or ask MNHQ to move this thread over.

No, he sleeps really well. She's always had insomnia so is generally irritable.

Ideally he just wants to sit at home and read the paper, and she's not letting him do this (hyperthyroidism). It's hard, I spoke to him yesterday and asked "no how are you really feeling?" and he said "pissed off".

I get it. They're old. They're frustrated and they're angry at the situation. They've been through a pandemic which aged them. They can't travel like they used to and can't do the stuff they want to. It's shit. But as outsiders, we can't sympathise easily because DMs behaviour and lack of compassion / empathy is off the scale. All siblings are shocked at how badly she's handling it.

Thank you - how do I do this please?

Just report the thread and ask for it to be moved - can you see the report button? Or I can do it for you if you like

Thank you that is really helpful - I shall give it a go!

sorry to hear about your DF, OP, it is a bit of a shock to find out parents are only human after all.

I think you're being harsh on your mum though. And part of it is coloured with your past as a carer and your LC. Your mum is elderly, and this isn't easy at any age, so she really needs to look at all possible options for outside help here.

Having some perspective is helpful. It just seems very premature for her to already be sick of the situation. Doesn't bode well if it goes on for several years...

This stood out. It seems very premature to be judging her about this too. It's a completely new situation for her and despite a long marriage, not usually how people see their twilight years. (I know i don't but we've discussed what will happen in this scenario). I think all you can do is encourage her to get outside help and not let her wind you up.

Thank you @Brefugee - I really appreciate your comment.

You're absolutely right that my response to all this has been coloured by the LC, her behaviour towards me has been cruel, and outwardly explosive (she raised her hand to me in 2018), she has historically conducted smear campaigns, writes horrific emails slating me and copying wider family members, pretty much excommunicating me from the entire family, so I am so fearful of getting extremely hurt by her yet again. I simply cannot afford to lower the barricades and offer support, as hard as that may be to comprehend.

As siblings, we have watched DF deteriorate albeit slowly, over some years - DM denied anything was wrong when his hearing went quite some time ago, and because his general tactic was to ignore her, she probably didn't want to "hear" what we could see.

I guess for the first time my siblings are actually seeing her nasty side / these behaviours (which I've been privy to for a long time) first hand and I feel relief that it wasn't just me. I'm just sad it's my DF who is in the firing line now.

On the hearing issue, has your DF been assessed/fitted with hearing aids? So many older people suffer with hearing loss and and it's very hard for them and those they live with to either be socially isolated by lack of hearing or feel that the person you're trying to talk to 'never listens', when in fact they just can't hear. I know it's only a small thing in the greater context and your DF may not welcome hearing your DM's complaints properly, but that's one thing that could be helped.

Thanks @maranella - I did suggest last summer that they get to ENT and have his hearing checked. I'll try again.

@MahMahMahMahCorona I'm very sorry for what you are going through, and your family too. I think you've taken a bit of a bashing from some posters and I wanted to say that you do not come across as a bad or unfair person. You actually sound caring and compassionate to me.

Sometimes it's hard for other people to understand how badly toxic family members - particularly parents - can impact lives. Thankfully, most people have never encountered situations where (for example) a mother has invested serious time and effort into destroying her child's achievements, confidence, happiness and future and repeatedly and openly delights in their sadness. It often becomes worse with age as the parent becomes frustrated with their own limitations or the consequences of alienating family and friends in younger years. Also, age and infirmity can sometimes result in "the filter" dropping, meaning that they say and do things that they wouldn't necessarily have before because of what people might think.

There's usually good reason why people go LC/NC with close family members. It sounds like you are trying to do your best despite whatever has happened in your family life.

Are you able to contact your DF's GP? They probably can't discuss his case with you, but you can raise your concerns. You can write to them if you can't talk with them on the phone. Also, you could contact adult social services and ask about getting a care package set up - even if it's just meals delivered or someone coming to help with medications and personal care. You may find that Age UK has some helpful advice for you: www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/care/

Ultimately though, it may be that there's not a great deal that you can do, and that you and your siblings have to step back a bit. If your M and F are deemed to have capacity they have to be left to make their own choices - even bad and possibly dangerous choices (in terms of self-neglect, etc). If your dad expresses his willingness to go on being "cared for" by his wife in this way, even if she is openly awful to him, that's his choice to make. Sometimes, all you can do is step back for your own sanity/wellbeing and let them live with their decisions.

If you and your siblings have repeatedly offered assistance and it's denied/ignored, you've done all that you can do. At least until the consequences of their choices precipitate a crisis and something then HAS to happen. And in that case, often the professionals who have to step in and deal with the crisis can advise.

I'm sorry that I don't have any better advice than this. Sometimes accepting that you have really tried to help and can do no more is the only thing that you really can do. And you do have to look after yourself. You have your own life and your children. There's a saying that "you cannot pour from an empty jug" - that's especially true when caught between trying to care for children and elderly relatives at the same time.

You might also want to look into The Cockroach Cafe thread here on MN. It's a brilliant place for people facing similar issues to you with their own parents. It's full of the best kind of encouragement, support, understanding and good humour. www.mumsnet.com/talk/elderly_parents/4500497-Cockroach-cafe-Spring-2022

Every good wish to you. x

I understand your perspective about your mum's impatience with your dad. MIL was the same: furious when FIL was less mobile when waiting for an operation, and even more so during his recovery period, as people were more sympathetic to his pain than to her temporary role as carer. She's ill herself now, and hugely resents the fact that it's her with the problems rather than him.
However. If you're not going to be actively caring for your parents yourself, and don't want to fall out with your siblings, leave it to them to work out what they can and can't do. Don't look as if you're issuing orders from the sidelines: it won't end well.
If your dad needs protecting, that might be a different matter, and you could think about working together on that..

@REP22 "Sometimes it's hard for other people to understand how badly toxic family members - particularly parents - can impact lives. Thankfully, most people have never encountered situations where (for example) a mother has invested serious time and effort into destroying her child's achievements, confidence, happiness and future and repeatedly and openly delights in their sadness."

Thank you. This is exactly it. I'm torn - on the one hand my heart knows I should help and my head says I know where this will end up: love bombing / acceptance of my help in whatever form, gaslighting and minimising, and then rejection.

I have to be careful of her spending any time unsupervised with my children too: yesterday she managed to take my DS12 to one side and told him he was "too old for fantasy worlds (he was talking, passionately, as he does, about Harry Potter, Star Wars and all the Percy Jackson / Rick Riordan books he has read - he wants to study Classics) and needs to grow up and start living in the real world."

She can be so toxic and it is so hard to know what balance I can strike along with my siblings. I think they are as I've said, quite shocked at DMs approach to this. She was a nurse and a counsellor in her former life - we thought she would have one iota of patience but she simply hasn't shown it to any of us.

If you Google ‘elder abuse’ there are a number of organisations that can advise you, I can’t remember which one I spoke to but it was helpful. I second telling Adult Social Services and your father’s GP of your concerns, to at least getting it on their radar. Due to confidentiality they won’t be able to discuss it with you, but my experience was that they took it really seriously.

Thank you. I promise there's no issuing of orders - it's quite helpful to realise that they're feeling similarly in terms of their perception of DMs behaviour. I have had to rebuild (through family mediation with siblings - DF wouldn't allow DM to attend...) relationships with my siblings so I know full well how carefully I need to tread here. Previous smear campaigns were effective and not pretty. Simply being able to talk with them about our mutual feelings is proving helpful, for all of us children. We haven't all spoken together for a couple of years because of the campaign waged against me. I'm keeping my cards close to my chest but I do feel a little vindication now they are experiencing it first hand. 😳

Thank you. I've asked DSibs if we can find out who the GP is.

My concern is that as I've gone LC (as has my DUncle the DB of DM), DM has no fuel so DF is the only source.