How to get gran into a home against her will

[Faciadipasta]

My gran is 96. She has always said she'd rather be dead than in a home but I think she does really need to be in one.
She lives alone, she is almost blind from macula degeneration, she is almost deaf and she is showing pretty bad cognitive decline. The last 2 days she has rung me in the middle of the day, crying, saying she's so lonely. She repeats herself constantly. Today she rang me saying she had fallen over, thought she had been unconscious but couldn't hear my to answer my questions on how she is. (This is not only worrying big it also is disruptive. I'm working. I miss meetings)
She can't hear the doorbell or the phone, although my dad has keys she usually seems to.leave her keys in the lock.inside so we can't unlock the door anyway.
I called my MIL to ask her to go round with keys to check on her. She did manage to get in (this time) and said she didn't seem injured but just kept repeating the same thing about calling the hairdressers??
Her house is pretty dirty too because she refuses cleaners and cant see the dirt.
The thing is she goes absolutely crazy if we say she needs ANY help. Literally screaming at everyone.
Even specsavers have said they won't see her anymore unless she has a chaperone because she is abusive.
WTH can we do?
My dad goes round a couple of times a week but we can't just turn up because we can't get in.
I go round a bit but really only if we can go out in her garden because I have young kids and her house is NOT a suitable.place for them to be.
Any advice would be really gratefully received. She is causing so much stress for everyone.
Thanks

I think someone needs to take responsibility and not keep running scared of a 96 year old who’s nearly blind and deaf.

She’s incredibly vulnerable on her own there - she could fall and die. What if there was a fire or she was burgled?

Just because she has a strong will doesn’t mean she is making good decisions for herself.

First of all you must get PoA organised for her - it takes a while. (12 weeks)

Secondly you all need to man up and organise for her to go into a home. Be prepared to tough but compassionate conversations.

I’ve done all this with an elderly relative. They were adamant they didn’t want to go into home, they wanted to stay in their house as long as possible. But we all finally told them that it was time to go into a home. We repeated it kindly, calmly, and we organised it all ourselves.

As soon as they were in the home they were so much happier. No anxiety, no loneliness, people around all the time, help with bathing, meals etc. I wish we had done it years earlier.

So much of the resistance is simply fear and if you choose the right place - that’s nice, comfortable and friendly - she will be ok.

If her house is worth 700k that would pay for 10 years in care. It also means that adult social care is not relevant because she can afford to pay for her own care.

@Auslaenderin

In the end people have the right to choose to live and die in squalor and in their own homes. This is very difficult for family members. But it can sometimes be the least worst option. I have had the experience of moving an elderly relative into a care home against their will. Ten years on, they are suffering from late stage dementia - bed ridden, in nappies, in anguish - and they have been in this state for years now. Their “quality of life“ is non existent, and they would have hated to be like this. So bluntly and with the benefit of hindsight, it might have been better if we had left them to die at home much earlier. I know that sounds awful but as a society we are not good at acknowledging what extreme old age brings for some people.

This is a bizarre idea - she wouldn’t have died if you’d left her at home if she’s still alive 10 years later. She just would have been less cared for.

Unless she actually died from a fall or set herself alight or something - in which case your family would have been partly responsible for failing to safeguard her.

It was our collective responsibility as a family that convinced us to move our elderly relative into care.

Old age is just shit. And dementia is one of the worst illnesses. It’s a lot shitter if you’re alone without carers around you.

First of all you must get PoA organised for her - it takes a while

for a PoA a person needs to have mental capacity. If she has capacity I can’t imagine she’ll agree to one. If she hasn’t, you’ve missed the boat.

"I don't think a keysafe would work though. She leaves the key in the lock on the inside"
Use it for the back door, side door or whatever. It may take a bit of work but it's worth perservering.

not quite true. people who refuse care at home can die earlier for many reasons.... malnutrition and dehydration, hypothermia, untreated infections, falls, house fires and so on...and I do get the "would have been better if we had left her to die earlier" There comes a point in dementia where the best care in the world only preserves the body and the mind and emotions are left in anguish.

If she hasn’t been assessed there’s no-one to say she doesn’t have capacity for the moment. If all the family insists PoA is organised, they may be may be able to convince her it’s in her best interest - which it is.

Alternatively, if she has lost capacity the Court of Protection can appoint someone to be her deputy.

The reason it’s in her best interest to choose PoA is because if she loses capacity without one the CoP can appoint anyone - someone she might not approve of. It may not even be a family member. She needs to know this.

Did you read my paragraph 2? I covered fall and fire. You can add malnutrition, dehydration and hypothermia - that simply makes my point clearer - the family would have been responsible for failing to safeguard them.

Better to let an elderly relative die from collective familial negligence? Totally unethical.

Take a different perspective on it so it isn't all or nothing. If she has capacity and just being "stubborn" then she has the legal right to make an unwise decision...but it doesn't have to be leave the house straight away. What about getting a befriending service who could pop in and visit for a couple of hours a week either through the council, or any of you apply for a carers assessment in your own right and they will help with referrals. What about seeing if she would go to a day centre for some company amd then is back home at night. Either way you are starting to get more people involved bit by bit and it will ease any transition to permanent care. There is no way any social services will fund a care home at present as she has had either a four times a day package, or the equivalent from other people. They will look at carers first.....but not if she has capacity as can't make her.

Whilst it's horrible for you all, you need to take a step back amd see what happens. At the moment she knows you'll come running, whether or not you are able to. Sometimes horrible things have to happen to get them to realise the problems or open doors into services and that may be through a hospital admission after a fall where full mot can assess in her best interests if need be.

I think you’ve had some really good advice.

Get the lock changed on the door to allow you to enter even if she has the key in the lock.

Get her a fall alarm.

she's rung me in tears saying how lonely she is and that nobody ever goes to see her and she never goes out. She wouldn't be lonely in a home and I would happily take the kids to see her more because it would be a healthy clean environment.

Tell her this ^
Tell her bluntly but compassionately. You are not doing her any favours at all by hiding truths like this from her.

Btw I meant I say - sending her to respite care for a “holiday” and then suggesting she stays is a betrayal - and most likely infuriate her.

What we did is a couple of stays in respite care first, so then it was not so scary.

Iris. She is 96! It doesn’t sound like she would agree to a POA. The Court of Protection is a very long winded process and £££ to organise. Have you seen the backlog in courts?

I literally bossed my parents around to agree to POA. Father has lost capacity now but I organised it a good few years ago thank goodness. I am also POA for Mum. It’s her money but I have her credit card and buy her whatever she wants. She has a paper statement every month and ticks it all off. More than happy with the way we have it sorted.

Thing is my Mum says she is lonely but won’t go into a home and I don’t think it’s the right thing for her. Carers ramped up seems to be the best way.

Arguing with a very old person is often pointless. I told Mum to not engage with someone claiming to be from Amazon and to put the phone down but she didn’t want to be rude (even though she doesn’t have an account).

We are going though a very similar thing with a 95 year old relative. She’s at the point where she isn’t really eating unless you cook the food and put it in front of her. She was falling over due to lack of food and we just couldn’t provide the care she needed and hold down our jobs.

After a fall we told her that nurses would have to keep coming to check on her and we arranged carers 4 times a day. She was very against carers but she’s happy enough with them now as she thinks they are nurses.

She would get extremely distressed if we told her she would be going in a home which is why if that time comes we are going to lie and say it’s a temporary thing until she is better.

@Faciadipasta, I'm going through this with my DM.
I've presented her with the fact that she's struggling (I've been very careful not to say that she's not coping), and that she worries too much about day to day things and that I don't like knowing she feels like that.
Could you possibly put it like that?
My DM is still in the process of choosing (and it will be housing with care as a first step), but I am applying gentle pressure as she needs to have more support now (and to be frank, I need a break from the stress).
You're not alone.

She wouldn't need funding. So doesn't really matter what SS say if she would agree to it. That's a very big if though. She is literally dead against it and yes we do feel responsible for her.
What if she fell and couldnt get up? Who would know? She wouldnt wear a fall alarm. She has one already and takes it off then forgets to put it on again. She doesn't hear the phone or the door. She rang me today to say she'd fallen, been unconscious and lost hours. I have no idea if that's true. I asked her if she was injured she couldn't hear what I was saying and hung up. She then wouldn't answer the phone when I called her back or the door when my dad's wife went round. She had her keys in the door so stepmother couldn't get in and all the blinds drawn so she couldn't even see in to check if she was lying in a heap on the floor. Stepmother tried front and back doors but both had keys in the lock from the inside.
What are we supposed to do with that?
She wont let anyone she doesn't know in, in case they steal from her. She did let the chiropodist in to help her ingrowing toenail but then became convinced that he wanted to track her down and kill her. She kept ringing me to tell me she was so frightened he was going to come back.
she says she is lonely. Every day this week she has rung in tears to tell me she 'should just put her head in the oven' because she sees nobody and nobody cares. She doesn't go out. She says wants to keep her independence but it's already gone.
We will definitely look into changing the locks though. I didn't know you could get ones that can be opened even when there is a key in them.

OP might she consider assisted living instead? She would have her own flat, her if front door, but assistance on tap and other residents in communal areas for company.

www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/care/housing-options/assisted-living-and-extra-care-housing/

Well the place I like is a bit like assisted living plus. She would have her own little studio flat. It's bloody lovely. I'd live there. The whole place looks like a cruise ship! They have their own cinema, 3 restaurants, a bar, a hairdresser and nail salon. Honestly it's a million times better than how she is living now.
They have 24 of the little whixh are flats designed specifically for dementia patients, they have a bedroom with ensuite, a lounge and a kicthenette so it's not like she'd be stuck in a dormitory or something.

To.be fair both my dad and I do have signed POA for her. But I think they only kick in if she is deemed unable to decide for herself right?

Because you let her get away with it

Also my dad is 72 himself. Who knows how long he has left? What if she lived for another 5 years like this? When does he get to do stuff for himself?

OP. You cannot carry on like this but you need to start taking some control. I am going to be bold and say don’t pussyfoot around. Changing the locks sounds a good idea. Small steps but ignore people who clearly haven’t had to deal with anything like this.

Hold on. You have POA?

Health only kicks in when they have lost capacity.

Take her for a visit. Don’t ask her if she might like it, tell her you are taking her on a trip because there is something you want her to see that you think she would love.

put plenty of “spin” on it but don’t lie. Don’t call it a home. Act as if you don’t know the specific word for it and just explain it instead. “It’s fantastic gran. It’s a whole community. Everyone has their own flats. There’s a hairdresser’s .. (etc, everything you said above). There’s a doctor available too, so no difficulty getting hold of anyone when you need them. And I t’s so exclusive! Beautiful building with (whatever she might find aspirational). Just humour me gran. I really want to show you because I think you would love it so much. It’s an amazing opportunity. The grandchildren are so excited that you might move there! They could pop over for a cuppa after school (if true).”

Yes health POA. Like a PP said im pretty sure it only kicks in if she doesnt have capacity. I don't have financial POA for her. My dad might. I'm not sure.