Driving (or rather, not stopping driving)

[sunshineandsuddenshowers]

I don’t think DF should be driving any longer. He’s had a couple of accidents and did one very dangerous thing when I was in the car w him a while back. He says he’s fine to drive. Is there any way to ‘test’ this? NB my mum still drives, there are buses and taxis…

Your dad could go out with an instructor or I think the institute of advance motoring do a test. You can report your dad to DVLA who will contact his GP if you are very concerned.

some older drivers self regulate and
drive in limited situations and locations. Some are priced off the road by insurance. Many are not amenable to a conversation. Contrary to many comments you hear about the relatives ‘should have done something’, your father is an adult and he makes his own decision.

My MIL agreed to give up driving after a visit from police. Three separate people had contacted them concerned about her erratic driving. She did it voluntarily but I think they made it clear to her in a kindly way that if she didn’t they would force her to. To be honest it was a relief to us all. It’s a bit of a nuclear option though.

it’s very tricky as we found to our parents giving up driving was a very emotional decision - almost like admitting they have one foot in the grave - and it’s very hard to counter that. Have you discussed how he will keep some independence if he gives up eg having a taxi service he can use? That can be a big factor too.

Sorry just reread about your mum driving and the taxies so ignore my last comment!

It's tough and I'm sure I'll fight it like crazy when it's my turn. I remember having to have this conversation with my aunt many years ago (she wouldn't listen to my mum, younger sisters are always younger sisters but she did listen to me). It's a terrible conversation to have but you really do have to try.

Can you

Stupid app posted too soon. Can you get him a dashcam fitted and maybe show him some examples? Being confronted (gently!) with near misses might help him accept reality.

How old is your father? Tbh, if you think he is unsafe you need to report him to the DVLA and to his GP. Of course he is an adult, but you are too and you would feel horrendous guilt if something serious went wrong for other people.

A couple of years ago a toddler was mown down outside a toy shop in Edinburgh by an elderly woman. It was tragic. I can’t imagine that woman’s family have slept ok since.

Anonymous report to the DVLA. It does work and my DF had his licence removed after tests. He was livid, and still doesn’t know who did it.

Please report if you have any concerns, if he is a danger then it is absolutely the right thing to do. Where I live a pensioner (who had been told by his optician to give up driving) mowed down a 3 year old and her mother on a crossing, he didnt even apply his breaks as he hadnt seen them. He went to prison and the poor child died.

Tell him in no uncertain terms that he’s not safe, that he is not only putting himself but others at risk. Why test him? He’s had a couple of accidents and this dangerous thing happen already! Forget anonymously telling the dvla, tell him that you are letting them know and do it. Check this page www.gov.uk/health-conditions-and-driving as there may be a medical reason. I understand that this isn’t easy and ultimately the onus is on the driver to be responsible for knowing when to stop but from what you’re saying he needs to stop driving. As someone with a degenerative condition and I have to renew my license currently every 3 years I am very aware that at some point I will make the decision to stop driving before I have to. He needs taking off the roads even if he doesn’t like it.

Take dad out for some near misses in the car. Do not do this 🙄

how old is your dad OP. We had similar for my dad, had early onset dementia. Mum had a private word with the GP, who mentioned it on the visit. Dad was always had huge respect for rules and especially on advice from a professional such as a doctor. Just before the visit he had gone for a drive with mum, pulled up to a junction near home and just stopped, and said to mum “I really don’t know where we are, which way do I go”

That was the turning point. Mum still let him put the car from the private drive into the garage for some time afterwards, it made him feel like he was still driving I suspect in his increasingly confused mind.

mum gave up after dad died, mainly because her eyesight had deteriorated and the constant medical forms to keep the licence, together with the huge insurance premiums for just 100 miles a year simply wasn’t worth it.

Of course he is an adult, but you are too and you would feel horrendous guilt if something serious went wrong for other people.
A couple of years ago a toddler was mown down outside a toy shop in Edinburgh by an elderly woman. It was tragic. I can’t imagine that woman’s family have slept ok since.

I think people say things like this without thinking. Yes, you may have a family that sits down to discuss issues OR you might have a family where the parent listens to no one. Or any permutation in between. If you are in the first category, crack on. If you are nearer the second the fact is this - parental responsibility applies to parent-child, not child to parent. I have to say this, as I think it’s such a dangerous and damaging thing for adult children struggling with elderly parents to hear judgement like this and it just adds to the FOG they may already have.

I hope the family of that woman who killed a toddler sleep sleep tightly. There is no reason for them not to. There may have been signposts before the accident, there may not have been. I don’t know. What i know is that it’s wrong to insinuate they should have ‘done something’. It’s easy to pull out examples of poor elderly driving, and every paper just loves to do so, the sad fact is there are accidents every day. If you want to talk figures it is young drivers who are more likely to kill someone. Dangerous driving is dangerous driving. If you see it you can speak to the parent if you are able, report to the police or DVLA, or suggest eye checks or cognitive tests if you believe that is the source of the problem (the OP doesn’t say what the errors are exactly).

don’t get me wrong, I’m not supporting dangerous driving but right here on this site are people pushed to the limit by caring. The worst thing for mental health is to be expected to control the uncontrollable and be judged for not having done so.

Thanks all.

we own no car and cycle and walk so I am acutely acutely aware of the risk he could potentially pose to others.

I have talked to him, several times. I think he needs a medical professional to tell him he needs to stop - but they are sooo unwilling to do this…

@Lorzest thats a kind post (just seen).

But I am very worried, as I do fear damage to others very very much. And if that happened, and I had not done what I could, I would feel appalling.

The talking hasn’t worked. I need to try some other things. And then, yes, I do perhaps need to accept the outcome. (And maybe I’m wrong and he is ok?!) But at the moment I feel I must do more.

I have two experiences of this.

One was my father who had become unsafe. He agreed to get rid of his car, but it represented freedom to him and he found it very hard. He bought himself and electric mobility scooter on which he did a 180 degree turn and tipped it over on himself, fracturing his pelvis. This accident ultimately ended his life.

The other was my OH who had Parkinsons. Thankfully he understood he was a danger and returned his licence. He did of course have me there to do the driving.

The loss of freedom that losing one's car represents, especially if you live in the country, is a big wrench for many.

I can feel your frustration regarding the right thing to do and you’ve obviously tried already without success which must be really difficult for you. I don’t know your relationship with your father or whether this is something prior to his accidents was discussed. I think I would ask him some difficult questions like what makes him think that he is entitled to drive when he’s obviously not as capable as he once was. His explanation for his accidents. You haven’t stated what the very dangerous thing was, I imagine it was bad which is why you haven’t elaborated, but tell him how bad it was if you haven’t already. My relationship with my parents is such that I know I can be blunt if necessary but I appreciate that isn’t always the case. I’ve worked for the police as a civilian in the collision department for the last 16 years and ultimately whether it’s a neighbour, friend or family member I would have no qualms reporting someone as I’ve seen too many times the consequences. Most aren’t fatalities or serious injuries but tragically some are.

The other thing to bear in mind is the massive delays at DVLA and in the health service currently. We had a relative who willingly filled in the 'report a health concern' form because he'd been diagnosed with dementia and was worried about his abilities. DVLA acknowledged receipt etc, and the procedure then is that they contact the doctor for a report to assess whether the individual can keep driving - but in the meantime they can carry on. Nine months later he has had nothing back, in spite of chasing it up. Sadly since then he has deteriorated significantly, so has fortunately realised that he's really not safe to drive any more, and has stopped of his own accord.

The loss of freedom that losing one's car represents, especially if you live in the country, is a big wrench for many. You don’t have to live in the country, living in the suburbs of a big city is enough. It’s not a “wrench”, it can mean the end of your lifestyle, of everything that keeps you engaged socially (and we know social disengagement is associated with dementia). It’s more difficult than for a teenager, because you are less able to walk 2 miles, or to wait up to an hour at a bus stop. It’s small wonder that people kid themselves about their driving ability.

Our collective decision to build our society around the car doesn’t just mean expense for those who can’t afford it, it means a serious curtailment for those without access to a car. I’m hoping self driving cars will help, but they’re a long time coming

So right, so so right, about the evils of a car-dominated culture.

BUT he has my mum, and money for all the taxis he wants.

you have persuaded me that this needs more conversation though, givenDVLA delays…

Agree with @butwait .

I reported my mum to the DVLA (alcoholic) a similar time ago and as far as I’m aware nothing has happened, though she’s too pickled to read her post so who knows…

I have posted this on many similar threads.

My brother and I reported my Dad after watching him via iphone tracking driving round and round a retail park unable to find the way out. DVLA sent lots of forms. I had to fill them in (became apparent he had early dementia). Did not leave anything out. BUT (cleverly) the first thing DVLA did was sent him for an eye test, which he failed. He never cottoned on to who reported him. My brother had also had a chat with the GP to back it up. So I’d say please report him.

Even when in a home with more severe dementia and in a wheelchair my Dad was still talking about not being able to drive.

Also, subtly check whether he reported those accidents. Suspect my Dad may not have reported at least one of his.

Surely this could be too late!
Showing him how bad he drives could be after he’s caused a serious accident.

Report anonymously to the DVLA. I did it for FIL and like to think I saved some lives.

We are compromising on this with my DF. We are saying OK, continue driving locally on roads you know well, but no long distances.