Care home fees

[whowhatwerewhy]

Can someone please explain how the care home fees work ?
Relative will be self funding a care home but I think there is a new rule you only pay so much for your lifetime (85k ?)
Can anyone explain how this works?

An assessment of needs would be done and a very frank but tactful conversation would be had. It’s very very very. very much situation dependant. (Every person and situation is unique)
If the patient has the ability to understand the ramifications of their decision (capacity) and has funds to provide whatever care they want - then they can provide and pay for their own care in whatever setting they choose.
If the patient doesn’t have funds, but has capacity, then it’s much more of a negotiation between what is desired but the authority is willing to provide.
If the patient doesn’t have funds or capacity, it’ll be down to what is in the patients best interests (health and safety) plus the authority weighing up costs.
If the patient has no capacity but has funds, then it depends who is the guardian of the individual, plus needs. (Complicated one!)
A patient who has a house, has funds - it can be sold or rented for money. The fact that family may not want it sold, is irrelevant.
it is a minefield to navigate. And I’ve probably over simplified things. But every case is unique and there are more things to consider than ‘we don’t want the family home sold’.

@Alphabet1spaghetti2 so can/ at which point do local authorities move people into a home? In a situation say in which the family doesnt want that to happen and neither do they, but they are clearly not coping. Does that ever happen

so in this situation an assessment would be made. A tactful, but Frank conversation would be had. It is likely that the outcome would be one of the following——- (no particular order)

1. to leave things as is until things further deteriorate and re assess.
2. try a respite period in a care home. If trial is successful proceed to full time placement. Or use the respite period to equip the patients own home with better equipment.
3. patient purchases more care at home until death or a care home is required.

Im assuming patient has money and assets.

@Ikeptgoing can you explain what you mean?

My mother is financially well off , if I buy an annuity for example £300k and she lives 20 years I'm
Quids in , if she doesn't I don't care because I would know that she would have had care paid for ...

How can you lose out ? Because you want the inheritance ?

I'm in the position at the moment that my mother has lost capacity due to a stroke and I'm dead set on an annuity plan and I'm seeking great advice on wed but I'm happy to be told I'm missing something

@Alphabet1spaghetti2 if the person has capacity the LA can't force a move into a care home. They would have a care needs assessment and the LA would say based on this they would fund x amount. If care at home cost more than i.e as they would need a live in 24hr carer which costs more than residential care the patient would have to cover the costs themselves.

If they have capacity people are allow to make decisions that would seem unwise. I.e staying a home even if this is clearly not on their best interest.

*cover the extra cost themselves.

I never said they could force them.
@Firstsitdowntoday
please read what I actually posted.

Can I ask what the rules are regarding payment in Scotland? I’m new to all of this but MIL is planning ahead- she has good pensions/investments and 2 properties; 1 is currently rented. I’m assuming she could rent out her own house too if needed and use the rental income from 2 properties and pensions to pay?

Ive never actually heard about a cap or contribution if you had personal funds?

@Michellexxx no idea, but a quick google finds this as a place to start. (I’ve only
dealt with the English system).
www.careinfoscotland.scot/topics/care-homes/paying-care-home-fees/standard-rates/

I would suggest that a chat with a finance advisor, as how best to approach organising her finances. (Always a good idea!)

About what??
It's all self evident what I have posted
It's not rocket science really

LA care rates are often much cheaper than the private rates. So if you use up £86k on a live in carer on private rates and the LA takes over I assume they would then be paying far less for the same live in carer.

@Ikeptgoing you haven't though , you said people lost Out financially ..
what about the parent who earnt the money ?

My mums care fees are £100000 a year . I have to make sure this is covered for 20 years regardless

If I spend £300k and she dies tomorrow I don't care as I know I would have done the right thing

My question was have I missed anything aside from this .

How can you lose out ? Because you want the inheritance ? Is that so wrong? At that age, your parents were probably intending their savings to go to their family. All your neighbour’s kids, similar financial circumstances to you, are gaily going off to the uni of their choice, yours are limited because the student loan is sufficient only for accommodation not living. And you’ve just paid £300k for £50k worth of care home.

Imagine how unfair we’d all think it was if someone’s kid had their uni prospects blunted because their parent had had to fork out for cancer treatment. We happily expect to spread the cost of most illness across the population, why not the cost of age associated illnesses such as dementia?

@MereDintofPandiculation
Thank you for your answer , that's what I wanted to know .

Was it just that the child misses out on potential inheritance or have I missed something else ?

My mum
Worked hard her whole life and she wanted the best care money can buy , I will facilitate that but can't risk her running out of money ..

If there is some left then great but if not it's her Money and her wishes ..

Does she have savings? Are they more than the value of the house? If so, it could be worth looking at an immediate needs annuity, but it will depend on her life expectancy. I took one out for my mum, her fees are £1300 a week and the annuity pays more than half, until she dies. The rest is covered by her pensions. She is three years into her care home and at five years the insurers will have paid more than I paid for the annuity. She will last five years, I'm pretty certain, but even if she had not, knowing that the fees were always covered was a massive relief. NB take independent financial advice first- preferably from a chartered adviser who specialises in elderly finances.

@Mxflamingnoravera thank you , yes she has savings and two properties .. probably worth around £1.3 M if liquidated tomorrow, maybe more as she has tonnes of growth bonds and premium bonds but I quite organised the paperwork the other day, didn't read anything !
We are seeing someone affiliated with SOLLA this week to talk things through .

Historically her life expectantly will be at least 10 years or maybe more . The women on her side love long lives but with reduced capacity. That's why I must be sure it's paid for for 20 years at least regardless of costs .

I don't care if all the money goes but don't want it to run out.

@Mxflamingnoravera
She does have savings, I would say they are equal to the value of her property.
Unfortunately there is no POA so social services are in the process of applying.
I thought her property could be rented out and that money would help her self fund for longer . On reflection it's probably easier to just sell .

It's been an eye opener for another relative who also goes without having to save for old age , one day you will inherit it . Umm no one day it will go on care home fees .

It’s a difficult call, the house may go up in value if you keep it and the rent will cover some of the fees, but if I were you I would get proper financial advice from a specialist before making any decisions.
you’d need to plan for how the fees are to be paid if the house is vacant or if major repairs are needed. My mum was cash rich and asset poor so it made sense to use some of her savings to buy an annuity and keep the rest invested for whatever may arise. I’m certainly not banking on seeing any money from the new scheme when it comes in.
I wish you the best of luck with it all.

That’s a massive simplification of what I said.

What I said is what is important to me in regard to my savings. I do not speak for anyone else.