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Elderly parents
Original poster

Care home fees

71 replies

whowhatwerewhy · 23/06/2022 10:30

Can someone please explain how the care home fees work ?
Relative will be self funding a care home but I think there is a new rule you only pay so much for your lifetime (85k ?)
Can anyone explain how this works?

OP posts:
Original poster
whowhatwerewhy · 24/06/2022 18:32

@MissHavershamJoinsTinder
The local authorities are involved.

OP posts:
Firstsitdowntoday · 25/06/2022 10:31

@MissHavershamJoinsTinder if you approach the council for assistance with funding they will ask for these details. If the information they request is not provided they won't fund.

MissHavershamJoinsTinder · 25/06/2022 16:53

I suppose if you can find it from a sale of the house, best not to ask them for what won't be given.

It's a good job they don't ask everyone who is ill to fund their own care.

Original poster
whowhatwerewhy · 25/06/2022 22:28

She will be funding herself. There will be a point we're her money will reach the threshold we're she won't .
She was always frugal, saving for her old age . I think like most she didn't want to accept it would go on care fees . Never took expense holidays , brought experience cars ect . Built up her pot for old age.

I agree with other poster care fees seems to be the one thing you can't insure for and isn't coved by " paying in " all your life .

OP posts:
CrocodilesCry · 28/06/2022 22:52

MissHavershamJoinsTinder · 24/06/2022 18:22

But how on earth would the local authority know what your relative sold their house for and what leans, such as equity mortgages, are against it? Are they involved in the sale in some way, even though your relative won't be funded by them?

The local authority do a full audit of your finances.

Alphabet1spaghetti2 · 28/06/2022 23:00

@whowhatwerewhy Have you considered a care annuity? It might be something to discuss with an IFA. Just another option.

endofagain · 28/06/2022 23:05

Get in touch with AGE UK. They are really helpful with all things related to care homes and funding.

LadyGardenersQuestionTime · 28/06/2022 23:12

The benefit of self funding is you can choose where to live: mum spent my inheritance with my full blessing 🤣 on a lovely, lovely care home with good food, booze, endless activities and a good proportion of residents who did not have dementia (she didn’t have dementia herself). We took a calculated risk that her money would last and it did.

SarahWilliams1974 · 03/07/2022 19:30

Hi My mum is 76, unwillingly been placed in a care home waiting for a package of care

Original poster
whowhatwerewhy · 03/07/2022 19:40

She's now in a home . She will self fund , her house will be sold .
It seems far easier this way .
She will have to draw down on her funds until they reach whatever leave apply.

OP posts:
gunnersgold · 07/07/2022 19:08

You can buy the an annuity plan to cover fees

Ikeptgoing · 09/07/2022 09:20

This "cap" on care home fees in England for self funding people living in care homes has been put back multiple times, and is not in place yet.

Ultimately you want to make sure relative is in the right type of home - residential or nursing home? Dementia registered home? And if they don't have huge assets over the £23,250 threshold that they care home accepts local authority rates when their capital depletes or that they may negotiate down to nearer that.

There is plenty online about how care home fees work. But why not look up the website of the local authority your relative lives in. As that will also have links to their charging policy and explain what people are entitled to and when.

Ikeptgoing · 09/07/2022 09:24

caringcarer · 23/06/2022 18:14

I think she can legally gift £3k.per year to family. In each tax year. She should do this. Sorry she is having to go into a home.

That's not true at all. That's related to inheritance tax rules, for your to 7 years before they die (so HMRC will look back). If you gift large sums of money to relatives (whether one or more) when care at home or residential care is considered or someone is in residential care , it is not lawful and called deprivation of assets. The local authority can legally come after those relatives who received it and will treat the person as if they still had it. It's better to seek good legal and specialist financial advice on that.

Ikeptgoing · 09/07/2022 09:25

whowhatwerewhy · 23/06/2022 21:15

@PritiPatelsMaker
Thank you , her funeral has already been paid for .

Good.

Ikeptgoing · 09/07/2022 09:30

Firstsitdowntoday · 23/06/2022 18:43

My understanding is it will not work like that say fees are £1000.00 a week potentially only 50% will be care fees and 50% will be 'hotel' costs so if you pay £86,000.00 only £43,000.00 will count towards the care cap so in reality you would pay £172,000 to have paid enough towards the care cap

Yes

It's not been clarified yet but will likely be something like this, similar to Scotland

Ikeptgoing · 09/07/2022 09:31

gunnersgold · 07/07/2022 19:08

You can buy the an annuity plan to cover fees

No she can't, not now and I beg anyone considering this to get VERY good financial advice on this. I don't know anyone who did this who didn't lose out significantly financially

Ikeptgoing · 09/07/2022 09:34

whowhatwerewhy · 03/07/2022 19:40

She's now in a home . She will self fund , her house will be sold .
It seems far easier this way .
She will have to draw down on her funds until they reach whatever leave apply.

Make sure as a self funded person that she is claiming higher rate Attendance allowance (if she wasn't in DLA or PIP already from
An under 60 age)

That's £92.40 per week she can claim to help towards care home fees whilst no local authority or nhs is funding her towards placement fees (I don't mean funded nursing care element in a NH but the overall social care needs cost)

Ikeptgoing · 09/07/2022 09:42

www.communitycare.co.uk/2021/09/22/quick-guide-to-the-cap-on-care-costs/

This will help explain a bit about what is intended. Keep your eye on national press on exact details and proposed implementation start dates.

Luckydip1 · 09/07/2022 09:48

Surely the best option is to stay at home and have a live in carer. Pay the live I carer with equity release up to £86k and after that the LA will pay for the carer? That way you avoid hotel costs.

ancientgran · 09/07/2022 09:54

whowhatwerewhy · 03/07/2022 19:40

She's now in a home . She will self fund , her house will be sold .
It seems far easier this way .
She will have to draw down on her funds until they reach whatever leave apply.

Get a good financial advisor and it will be easier than you think. I have LPA for elderly relative who went into a home 5 years ago, going by how much money she had plus the sale of her house I didn't think she could self fund for 5 years. As it is she has her pension, attendance allowance plus an income from investments. There is as much money now as there was 5 years ago.

gf4567hfdd · 09/07/2022 11:02

Luckydip1 · 09/07/2022 09:48

Surely the best option is to stay at home and have a live in carer. Pay the live I carer with equity release up to £86k and after that the LA will pay for the carer? That way you avoid hotel costs.

Is that possible? Does the care package allow lots of home carers and is that then capped?

Alphabet1spaghetti2 · 09/07/2022 14:36

@gf4567hfdd Whilst home care packages can vary from individual to individual and from council to council, there will be an ‘unofficial’ cap. Often that is at four visits per day (not always). If an at home care package is cheaper than paying for someone to go into care - that is the major factor at play. Conversely, it can be cheaper to go into a home than the authority to pay for a suitable care package at home. Care homes often do deals with local authorities for rooms - so they are discounted from the normal rate, but the authority pays regardless of wether the room(s) are occupied or not.
Ideally, the patients welfare should be the deciding factor, sadly it’s often goes hand in hand with financial considerations if not first and foremost. In todays world, I would guess a lack of available community carers will also come into play, and it might be easier and safer to remove an at home care package in favour of providing a care home place instead. Lots of factors in play, and never an easy decisions for authorities to make.
I expect there are exceptions (there usually are) but I’ve never heard of an authority paying for 24/7 live in carers.

gf4567hfdd · 09/07/2022 14:58

@Alphabet1spaghetti2thank you. currently trying to figure stuff out for IL so this is really useful to know. I wonder whether more people will now choose to stay at home if it means them not having to sell their house. Hotel fees at a care home can be pretty high.

Alphabet1spaghetti2 · 09/07/2022 15:08

@gf4567hfdd its more complicated than choosing. Sometimes people don’t have capacity to be allowed a say in their care. Sometimes it’s safety - many would want to be at home but it may just not be safe or accessible for them. Sometimes it’s costs. Care homes are cheaper for authorities to rent than pay 24/7 live in costs. Etc etc. (I know of one home who lets rooms to the authorities at a huge reduction compared to the same room paid for privately)

if you don’t have a personal (large!) sum of money and capacity to decide for yourself, then options are very limited. But that has always been the case. The proposed new caps are not going to change things for lots of people.

gf4567hfdd · 09/07/2022 15:13

Alphabet1spaghetti2 · 09/07/2022 15:08

@gf4567hfdd its more complicated than choosing. Sometimes people don’t have capacity to be allowed a say in their care. Sometimes it’s safety - many would want to be at home but it may just not be safe or accessible for them. Sometimes it’s costs. Care homes are cheaper for authorities to rent than pay 24/7 live in costs. Etc etc. (I know of one home who lets rooms to the authorities at a huge reduction compared to the same room paid for privately)

if you don’t have a personal (large!) sum of money and capacity to decide for yourself, then options are very limited. But that has always been the case. The proposed new caps are not going to change things for lots of people.

@Alphabet1spaghetti2 so can/ at which point do local authorities move people into a home? In a situation say in which the family doesnt want that to happen and neither do they, but they are clearly not coping. Does that ever happen?