MIL saying she wants to die - empathy / handhold needed

[Lottapianos]

MIL is 76 and in very poor health - heart failure, blood pressure issues, totally unmanaged type 2 diabetes etc. She lives alone as FIL died last year. They couldn't stand each other and she often alluded to how much better her life would be without him. She has private carers visit 3 times a week. She has been falling at home recently and ended up in hospital 2 weeks ago (no injuries thankfully). The hospital discharged her at the weekend, despite our concerns about her safety at home, and sure enough, she fell again yesterday and is back in hospital - again, no injuries thankfully

She says she wants to go into a care home, which seems like a good idea as she's clearly not safe at home. She enjoys being in hospital and says she is well cared for. However, she also says regularly that she wants to die and doesn't want to live like this anymore. For context,DP and I have a pretty poor relationship with her. She is manipulative, self absorbed, extremely negative and can be plain nasty. He's finding it really upsetting, because he doesn't know what on earth he's supposed to say or do when she tells him she wants to die. We live 6 hours away so we're speaking to her on the phone each day, and DP will visit when she is discharged to a respite bed

Has anyone had a similar experience - an elderly relative repeatedly saying they want to die but also talking excitedly about a care home and saying what a great time they are having in hospital? Some other perspectives would be really helpful

'Why are you so worried about her though if you don't have a good relationship?'

I'm worried about the impact on my DP. It's far from a good relationship, but we do have a relationship with her. He's an only child and feels responsible for sorting out her care. MIL takes no responsibility for her own health and never has, so he's trying to find a balance between making sure she is safe and cared for, and not getting sucked in to her drama. It's tough

I agree with this. I think it’s frankly rational that elderly people losing control of their bodies and lives want to die. I know I would! Why we don’t have voluntary euthanasia is beyond me, we show more compassion to animals as your mum said.

If it is a case of her being manipulative and an abusive parent though why are you even in contact? My dad is similar (abusive, victim complex, narcissist) and I certainly won’t be pandering to him in his old age.

Get your DH to phone the ward and ask them to refer to the hospital social worker. Tell them she's not safe at home.

I agree with what some PPs have said, moving into a care home may alter her outlook somewhat. She'll be with other people her own age and they usually have activities planned. I'd look at getting that sorted as soon as you can.

is manipulative, self absorbed, extremely negative and can be plain nasty

She's not change because she has got frailer. It's all about the attention seeking and laying on of guilt. It's a habit she'll never break. My granny used to do this to my mother but when my uncle came round it was all sunshine.
Just start the ball rolling looking for a care home.

Yes, this has been my Granny's position for some decades. I think it's worth thinking about/ talking about (if appropriate) what she means by saying she wants to die. In my Granny's case it's not that she wants to (eg) die by suicide at all but rather that she doesn't want her life extended, but does want to be comfortable and cared for while she is alive. If your MIL is anything like this, I don't think it's incompatible at all with enjoying her hospital stay and being excited about the care home.

Next time she says it, if you or your partner can, maybe ask her about what she means and talk about it a bit. I think people can take someone saying they want to die as quite hurtful and aggressive and I don't think it's always meant like that (obviously I don't know your MIL though!)- it can make one want to stop the conversation and say "oh no, you don't mean that" or something rather than listening.

Care home staff are generally really good at talking to their residents and families about this sort of stuff. In my Granny's case, she's had numerous strokes and illnesses since moving into the home and (at her considered request) has only ever received palliative care and never been taken into hospital. and that's been the right decision for her. Still hanging on into her mid 90s though.

Obviously your situation may be totally different so just ignore this if not helpful!

I listen to my mum's long rants making 'nice noises'. Last time she said, very sharply, 'Why don't you ever say anything?!'
I answered that none of the things she was talking about were in my power to change, so there was nothing I could say. She went quiet. I think she realised that raging at me because of things that were nothing to do with me, out with my control, and generally not my fault or in any way resolvable by me was perhaps unreasonable.

If she really wanted to die she could start by refusing all her non-palliative medication - I would imagine she is on quite a lot, and it will all be keeping her alive. Sorry to be harsh but manipulation like this gets my goat

Enable a care home for her - will she be able to self fund, or will she need council funding? If council funding she may struggle to get a care home placement as she seems to have full capacity so would be safe at home if she had more regular carers (eg 3 x a day) to help her with meals, toileting, getting up and going to bed. If she would be self funding then contact the hospital social care team who will likely be able to recommend a service like carehome-finder that work with the hospital to find appropriate homes. She will need one that has a good proportion of residents without dementia, which can be quite difficult to do.

Yes, we had a similar situation after her husband died, and as others have said the 'I want to die' message is a control/manipulation tactic.

However you do have a major advantage - she WANTS to go into a care home. It sounds like it really will be the best thing for her. The complaints may or may not reduce once she's there, but you will know she is being well cared for and has constant company rather than being home alone at risk of falls.

Assuming she is self funding, you can go ahead and research care homes online. You do not need Social Services' input. I found my mother's care home via the website below, which gives details of care homes, with reviews from relatives. The care home manager will meet and assess her to check they can meet her needs.

(If she needs council funding you'll need to go via Social Services, good luck with that, you could start by asking to speak to the hospital social worker.)

www.carehome.co.uk/

Thanks for that link Shelling, very helpful. Yes she is self funding. And you're right - we're very lucky that she wants a care home and isn't insisting on soldiering on

The GP has asked the hospital to discharge her to a community respite bed, don't know about timeframes yet but will start researching asap

"Rant" is the right word sometimes, they're venting their frustration on you, even though you can't do anything about it. My Dad does the same, I'm his safe person to whom he feels he can say anything....and he certainly does!

In essence, we're experiencing role reversal, we've become the safe "parent" in the relationship. I'm sure some of you are similar to me in that you've got it coming from all sides atm, teenagers venting to you and also an elderly parent. That's why we often feel squeezed in the middle. It's exhausting at times. 😂

OP my mother says the same. Along with her other vents my stock response is "I'm sorry to hear that" on repeat.
She consistently says "I wish you lived nearer" to which I don't reply. She was never bothered before but what she would really like now is for me to be her unofficial carer whilst she pretends she is coping fine.

My mother has been an awful mother to me but now I am living closer, there is an expectation that I will do all her paperwork and help her with stuff. She’s still very rude to me quite often . I do think to myself that I don’t owe her anything. Her fear and increasing frailty make it hard to be a callous however.

Can I ask something that might sound heartless but I genuinely would like to know? When older people decide they would prefer their lives to end (and this has happened in my family so I'm not just talking hypothetically), is there a reason why they don't simply end their lives by taking paracetamol etc? I understand some of them don't really mean they want to be dead, but I think a lot of others do. I hope it's OK to ask this as I have wondered for a long time and don't know if I am missing an obvious answer.

It takes a lot of courage. You tend to be aware that it's a bit hit and miss.

And awful for your family, afterwards. I really don't think it's as easily done as said.

Plus, in my mum's case at least, she actually has a very nice life. Her complaints are designed to make everyone else work at perfecting it for her!

is there a reason why they don't simply end their lives by taking paracetamol etc?

Because it isn't painless so it's scary. In my darkest moments I have wished to be dead, but I just want to go to sleep forever, rather than die from taking an overdose that could cause me suffering in the process.

@ThisTownAintBigEnoughForBoth 1) Wishing to be dead isn’t the same as wishing to kill yourself 2) Killing yourself is quite scary because if you get it wrong you could end up in a worse state than you are already, and without the ability to have another go 3) I’ve known more than one person who has “given up on life”, stopped doing anything, stopped eating enough, and I’m sure it has shortened their lives (without being quite so definite as taking an overdose, and possibly perceived as less upsetting to loved ones)

If she really wanted to die she could start by refusing all her non-palliative medication - I would imagine she is on quite a lot, and it will all be keeping her alive. It’s not that easy, though, is it? Most likely effect is that you will first become very ill, at which point you’ll find yourself in hospital, followed by a care home because if you aren’t taking meds you obviously have lost capacity to care for yourself.

Been there, got the tee shirt. A lot of my friends of the same age have, as well. Oddly, I think it is actually worse if you were very fond of the complainer, because then you really do wish you could make things better for them (which on the whole you can’t, because what they want is to be younger/ better/ happier). When they have moaned and groaned and been unpleasant , I don’t think it wrenches at you heart strings in the same way. There’s a little bit which just thinks STFU. That keeps you sane.

My Dad has lifelong MH problems and has attempted suicide several times. Each time, he was found and rescued. It's not easy to do and although he talks about it sometimes, he says he's too frightened, because it may fail and he'll end up paralyzed or in a coma, rather than dead. Or he'll be found, taken to hospital, and then discharged in a worse state than before.

I don't really have anything helpful to add, but I just wanted to let you know that I recognise and empathise with the position you're in, and offer an internet handhold (a bit rubbish I know). Going through this now with FIL. The self-pity and self-destructive urges can come on surprisingly strong, at odd times.

'just wanted to let you know that I recognise and empathise with the position you're in, and offer an internet handhold (a bit rubbish I know)'

Not rubbish at all - very kind and thoughtful. Thank you, and I'm sorry you're going through similar with your FIL x

Thanks for those who answered my query and I am sorry to hear of those who have personal experience of this.