Two elderly mums reduced to vegetables in days - what are they giving them??

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In the last week both my elderly mum and my sister's elderly MIL (in another part of the country) have been admitted to hospital.

My mum has gone in on the recommendation of her GP for what's called a social assessment. Her mobility has got so bad that my dad is struggling to care for her and she needs to be kept in while they organise a care package (which we eventually pay for). My sister's MIL went in for a urinary tract infection. Both women's minds were fine if a little slow sometimes.

I visited my mum for the first time yesterday and my sister's DH also visited his over the past few days and we're both shocked at how much they've both changed in a matter of days. My mum literally seems like they've removed her brain - like the lights are on but no one's home!

It's heartbreaking and frightening and I'm wondering, as the other mum is practically the same, that the hospital are drugging them up to the eyeballs without their consent. There are six other women on her ward and they are all like that - zombies just staring straight ahead, not reading, listening to music, watching TV etc.

My mum is on a lot of medication for various things, but she's been on them at home for months and she was fine mentally until now.

It's so sad - I just want to bring her home but I know my dad couldn't cope without the carers, so we just need to wait.

Has anyone had a similar experience or can explain this? It feels like a horror film...

Ask to see her drug chart. I’m betting she’s getting sleeping pills.

Without family support daily and advocacy, old people go downhill fast in hospital. My father went in for a fall and eventually was discharged to a home as he could no longer walk and had lost 2 stone .

The heat is probably a big contributing factor.

If you go into a care home during a heat wave it can be like something out of a zombie movie.

Many of the drugs (blood pressure meds, water tablets, thyroxin etc.) that elderly people take make them very vulnerable to heat as it disrupts the bodies ability to regulate heat and hydration.

My 80 year old nana was a bit like this with a UTI, completely out of it. She didn’t seem to know where she was or what was going on. She’s in a care home now and much better, it’s like she’s returned to being herself with the regular care vs being at home.

"Social admissions" do happen, but usually a real crisis, late on an evening, carer having a breakdown, no possibility of managing at home with a small care package. We'd definitely be able to get carers in a couple of times a day or find a care home rather than hospital except in worst circumstances. I appreciate what you have said about seeing a change in her over the last two weeks, bit are you totally happy you have the full story? Has she had a referral to social worker or discharge coordinator? If she is very frail, sometimes just being out of routine, new place (maybe dehydrated) can really have an impact. You could ask to see her medication chart, she might have been given something to help her sleep etc if she had seemed distressed.

Was just about to say this, Im a professional, working in the public sector and the last time I was admitted to hospital about 9 years ago I was a nervous wreck in there, I do suffer with depression and anxiety anyway but this took the biscuit, I think I had a breakdown after I came home due to it, the noise, the intrusiveness, the lack of privacy and dignity, the attitude of some of the doctors, the heat, light, lack of information about whats happening to you, pain you're in. Horrendous.

Its not a place for the sick, which is a bizarre thing to say

Sorry, ignore my comment above. I responded to the wrong post.

Another point I can't see if anyone's already mentioned - was she actually taking all the medication she was prescribed, at home? Sometimes medication gets added (especially for eg high BP or diabetes management), because the first drug isn't doing enough. But if the first drug isn't working well because it's only sometimes being taken, when someone is admitted to hospital and given all their medications regularly it turns out they are on too much.

If someone is in a position to check for excess "spare" medication at home that can be a clue to this issue.

OP, get her out of there asap if you can. There's no reason for her to be in there that long and the longer she's in there the more she'll deteriorate.

When my Mum went in for an unrelated illness (Parkinson’s sufferer) they couldn’t handle her meds and got it so wrong she was hallucinating! She’d had a fall and they had to pin rhe fracture but the nurse on duty showed me the drawing and said ‘she’s had her hip pinned’. I looked and it was her WRIST! Seriously, check her notes and then see if they gave the right meds at the right time.

Rather than what the hospital staff are giving these women, it could be what they are not.
No social interaction unless washing, dressing or feeding?
Medications stopped temporarily if they need to have a test or review?
Fluid restriction to do further testing?
There's many things that need to be done to rule out health issues that can cause deterioration as a side effect. It's important to keep in touch with the nurse in charge to get updates and raise your concerns.
They may not know what your family were like before admission.

Sometimes they are able to mask symptoms at home, such as dementia symptoms, but when they’re away from home they can’t mask anymore.

This is what happened to a lot of elderly in care homes during pandemic. Staff shortages & quarantining x dementia + mobility problems -> a lot of people deteriorated much faster than they would have done in the normal highly social CH environment.

It's why Family/friends of CH residents are suing now to Never be Locked Out again.

This. Unless you are working/have young children/live 100miles away etc..., it is prudent to be around as much as you can, while a loved one is in hospital.

I'm afraid I have to agree with @KangarooKenny . I was aware that my mum was getting a little forgetful and unpleasant but I was stressed and assumed that it was my fault. She went into hospital after a fall on the GP's advice to be assessed. I didn't see her 48 hours and when I did I realised that she had been depending on me to hold everything together. Without my constant input - reassuring her about her odd dreams and thoughts and talking her down when she got into a panic - she was unable to function mentally. For the past three years she had very poor mobility and needed to be transferred from the armchair to the toilet by wheelchair, she was incontinent and insisted that she had no need for help with personal care. After three weeks in hospital she went to the rehab unit where she was assessed by the social worker and OT and they agreed that with her mobility issues (severe osteoarthritis), the incontinence and the onset of dementia she needed 24 hour care.

That was in August last year. By the time she moved to the home in October she had lost all mobility in her legs and could not use the commode or the toilet. I don't believe it was a lack of care at all, it was the onset of dementia that I had helped her mask.

My Mum went into hospital. She was in her 90's and quite frail.
When she went she was able to shuffle around her flat.
Eight days later she was discharged.
Not only was she unable to walk, but wasn't even able to stand any more.

Perhaps ask for a referal to a geriatrician? This is a simplistic explanation but if your DM is on multiple medications, some may be negatively interacting with each other and a geriatrician often gets good results by reducing/tweaking medications.

If your parents where managing prior to your Mum’s mobility deteriorating, is it possible for her to have an occupational therapy home assessment whilst she is in hospital? Just thinking that maybe any equipment needed could be supplied and your Mum could go home again?

Hospital is not the best place for her, and she is at risk of hospital acquired infection.

Social care provision for new packages is virtually non existent so she may be in hospital for a long time.

Ask to see the social work hospital team, ask if they have completed their assessment yet and ask what the plan is. They should have contacted you prior to the assessment though so that you can be present. It may be that a transfer to a respite bed is needed whilst waiting for a home care package.

Yes to delirium re your MIL. This will settle, but can take up to six weeks.

I remember my nan was severely dehydrated in hospital and it turned out she was embarrassed about needing help to go to the toilet.
She ended up becoming delirious from it and the unfamiliar surroundings don't help, they just don't have the staff to monitor every patient these days.

@LongPath unfortunately it happens all the time! Relatives are not coping but getting social services assessment in the community is so difficult that frequently relatives get to crisis point and the person ends up in hospital. I've worked in A&E for years and we cannot get long term care packages from there, although we used to be able to years ago, so have to recommend people are admitted so that social services are forced to put in the care that is required as they are 'bed blocking' . (Then people wonder why there is always a lack of hospital beds for acutely unwell people to access without waiting 15 hours in A&E🙄). This is the worst possible thing for the elderly person but is the only way for the family to get the help that they need. Out of their familiar environment the elderly person often deteriorates rapidly. They do not mobilise as much as at home, their food is brought to them and often a commode so that their mobility deteriorates as well as their cognitive function and they are at high risk of picking up an infection.

I can at least reassure OP that they are not giving them medication. All medication has to be prescribed even paracetamol and nothing is given without a medical reason.

It can be so shocking but it's very common. When you take an older person out of their home environment they seem to deteriorate significantly because of the stress of an unfamiliar environment, they have to concentrate so much it's takes up so much energy and mental focus. Team that with infection, poor sleep, and you have a shell of a person. Older people do deteriorate quickly as well.

I hope they both pick up.

And yes, care packages are scarce. And people in hospital get priority (which I don't necessarily agree with).

Absolutely this. I was in recently for 9 days, and whilst I was feeling very poorly, I also felt anxious, listless, and stressed with the environment too. It fucked my sleep routine and my eating routines. For the first 5 days I was in a bay tucked away in a corner without daylight or being able to see outside, I was then able to request to be moved to a bed near a window as the ward emptied after a weekend and it improved my mood so much! Then after one night of being near the window, I was moved to a ward that had no windows at all and about three times as many beds and I ended up taking a turn for the worse again. It was horrible, I cried myself to sleep. Being in hospital really messes with you!

Definitely raise with the nursing team that your mum doesn’t seem at all right, she’s changed since being in and you want to know what they’re doing about it.

Sometimes they are able to mask symptoms at home, such as dementia symptoms, but when they’re away from home they can’t mask anymore.

Yes, my DM ended up in hospital when she broke her hip. I knew she was getting slightly forgetful and not coping at home quite as well as she had been but thought that was due to mobility issues. She went from hospital into care as she did indeed have dementia, and on going through her home while she was in hospital I eventually saw just how much she was not coping at all.