Worst case scenarios please for no lasting power of attorney and dementia/stroke

[Ruralbliss]

I previously posted that my 77 year old mum who is illogical, stubborn and anti-admin at the best of times is becoming increasingly odd and frail/doddery.
She took up smoking fags in the covid pandemic despite having a weak asthmatic chest all her life as an example of her oddness and not doing sensible things. She also has osteoporosis and has sat on the sofa for at least 30 years doing little more than watching rolling news & doing the crossword.

As expected her reaction to my gently enquiring as to whether she had or would consider putting in place lasting power of attorney was met with a firm No thank you and a shut down of the discussion. I pointed out what a tricky situation it might be if she had a stroke but no.

She did however confirm she has made a will which is a change of position from the last time we spoke of such things but couldn't recall the solicitor. Said my brother has a copy. I'll be verifying this later.

She has started to say some stranger than usual things of late which I have been noting in the back of my diary so could be the thin end of a dementia shaped wedge.

My question is this - if she did develop dementia and failed to nominate anyone for LAP then what might be the repercussions for her in terms of worst case scenarios?
She owns her own house outright and has a load of cash in savings having downsized from a lucrative house sale last year.

My best guess is that if she wanted private care but wasn't able to organise or pay then it couldn't be provided.

Any clues gratefully received.

I'm inclined to let her shirking these important actions for no real reason other than she can't be bothered and is in denial as to her age/state as health to 'enjoy' (wrong word) the fallout of not having a Plan B if/when the shit hits the fan. I'll be muttering told you so but also will be the one dealing with the mess as live down the road from her with my brother 3 hours away.

I'm not mad keen on doing anything further for her such as trying to get her to see doctors for a health check. I mow her lawn, get her prescriptions and groceries and include her on nice days out etc but she's always not been that keen on me, chucked me out when I was 17, always favoured my feckless brother etc

I'm now going to get my own LPA set up with 19 yr old offspring and trusted SIL as a team.

@OhamIreally Yes I can well imagine. My foresight is telling me something very similar.

I've printed out the 2 x 27 page LPA forms from Gov.UK (health and financial) - nicely designed i noted not too much detail on each page and good succinct guidance about the nominations etc.
I'll leave them with her to look out or fill in if she ever feels inclined.

My brother is primed to have an encouraging conversation with mum at some point. Maybe when he comes to stay.

Other than that I'm washing my hands of it.

(Probably easier said than done though as I live 2 mins from her and see her several times a week whereas my brother lives 3.5 hours away, doesn't have a car and speaks to mum approx every 4-6 months)

I've just remembered a quote from
Mum a year ago when she was house hunting. Should have started the Log of Oddness as I'm now calling it then. I now realise

Tottering around barely able to walk due to nil activity for forty years, osteoporosis and a smashed pelvis a couple of years below I suggested she view some bungalows alongside the big 4-5 executive homes she was looking at.

The response to this wise gentle suggestion? "I don't think I'm quite ready for a bungalow YET Rural!"

Total outrage, denial and naivety at her age, situation and the danger stairs pose to her.

I started reading this thread and realized I am the same age as the OP's mum I don't class myself as old and doddery as over the years tried to keep fit and well. My DH and I have done our LPA's for both property and health and in the last week have just registered them with our GP surgery and our bank. After hearing various stories from friends the problems they have had with elderly relatives trying to sort out their affairs because they are unable to do them anymore we decided we would sort out our LPA's. At the present time because of Covid it is now taking approx 20+ weeks after submitting them to the Government Department. I know some elderly people have it in their minds that if they do LPA's they will lose control of their finances and their family will take over and they will have no say they don't realize how handy it will be when they are unable to do things.

Interesting thread. Just wondering whether it's necessary to have LPAs for both financial and health? I am an only child and my parents have set up financial LPAs with me but not the health ones. They figured that they'll be next of kin for each other and then I'm NOK for them? Is it necessary to have health LPAs as well? Any insight welcome.

@Harveypuss I’d try to secure health LPAs as well.
My DF got pneumonia. He went to hospital My DM already had advanced dementia but his hospitalisation forced her to stay with me. It didn’t go well. She had to be sectioned. DF eventually returned to their home but had a catastrophic accident within a week and ended up in same hospital as DM was in MHU. He died a few days later. DM was under section without POA. All their estate transferred to her. It was a nightmare all round.
If we had the paperwork that you don’t have, DM could have been transferred to a hospital much nearer to us instead of 60 miles away for seven months.

Best to have it as it can all go pear-shaped pretty fast

Health LPA is less vital but still handy.

I've only used it as a magic piece of paper to get doctors to talk to me, but, I have an older friend who found her ailing husband "unresponsive" (as they say) in bed one morning.

She called an ambulance (I have always wondered why, as I got the impression he was clearly passed away, but it's not a situation that will recur so I wouldn't ask). They ushered her out and performed CPR. She could still hear and it has been a distressing memory that's hard to shift. Apparently if she'd had health LPA for him she could have prevented that, they said.

DH and I have health LPAs setup. If it gets to the point where I'm done for and everyone knows it, he can talk to the medics and make it as short as possible for me, if he thinks it best. I wanted to give him a free hand to do (within legal boundaries) the least worst thing at a shitty shitty time.

For the donor, health LPA means you have someone who knows you officially speaking for you, choosing care homes, discussing treatment. For the attorney, it means that the memory of a loved one dying isn't complicated by having their hands tied, thinking, "this is not what they would have wanted".

@mowbraygirl she's nearly 80

She called me several times in quick succession on Tues while I was enjoying a Zumba class and taking kid to piano lesson.

When she finally got through to me she sounded panicked and desperate asking if I'd heard her previous messages (nope). Could I come to do some gardening for her? I asked when and she reckoned asap and sounded unimpressed that I had commitments each day of the week until Sunday.

When I listened to the messages they were quite frantic about needing to come THIS EVENING.
She sacked her perfectly good gardener last week and seems to have forgotten I have a full time job.

Definitely thin end of the wedge I think. I noted the leaflet about POA hadn't moved from the hall table where I placed it.

I really think there should be some sort of public campaign to encourage people to set up LPAs. My parents did them years ago but my in-laws are reluctant for no real reason. My mum has recently had to go into a home and it made the whole process so much more straightforward but they still won't do it!

I think this is a very good point. Elderly people ( of whom I am one) tend to think that things have not changed from their experience, when ‘ next of kin’, especially spouses but also children were automatically consulted in health matters and had considerable authority even in legal and financial affairs. So it is hard for us to realise that social distrust has set in , probably not without cause, and you need a proper ‘piece of paper’ to take these decisions.

of course, a lot of people, ( not me) do not like to face up to the fact that they may well not be able to look after themselves, or manage their affairs sensibly. It is like Wills, people think that by encompassing their own death they will somehow hasten it. So we/ they assume that family will just be able or willing to perform these functions, when actually they may not be allowed to.

i don’t know how we make people aware of this. Perhaps it should be rather like the sight test on a driving licence, something that just kicks in when you reach a certain age. Possibly link it to the bus pass, because that is pretty popular amongst my cohort!

That's a blinding idea @thanksamillion and yes @Allthegoodnamesarechosen I think you are right times and attitudes have changed. We protect the individual from unscrupulous relatives these days.

I also see a huge different between my dad and mum - dad was keen to get all his affairs in order to a low level of detail well ahead of pandemic but covid triggered a review and fine grained detail instructions (he has complex property and financial affairs and is in a foreign country)
He was a senior professional all his working life and familiar with anticipating and mitigating tricky problems, paperwork and dealing with legals.

My mum on the other hand comes from a cash in a sock under a mattress, uneducated immigrant manual working background who gave up being a teaching assistant in the 1980s.
Suspect the idea of dealing with an official government/legal document gives a high level of anxiety in the same way creating a will did (due to a personal unfamiliarity or cultural fear of)

No, they wouldn’t. There is no Adult Social Care left in this country. I speak from loved experience. We long term disabled/post stroke survivors are left to rot at home with no actual care not even welfare checks. Councils do a financial assessment, setting the qualifying income at £540 a month before they will chip in financially to assist.

It is financial eugenics designed to price the disabled out of accessing Social Care.

The notion that Social Services will help is a lie. They will insist on asking for more than double what the person receives in care components, then close their box-ticking exercise until neighbours complain about the smell of the deceased.

Far right policies to rid themselves of the ‘useless eaters’. It’s been happening for over a decade. Ken Loach’s film I, Daniel Blake is truthful and it’s getting worse.