Is there a way to get mil sectioned?

[Lisad1231981]

My MiL has always been very difficult. She would fall out with dh and his brother regularly. She shouts and screams down the phone, swears at them a sends vile letters and dm's.

Our children are not allowed to add her on any social media and mainly we keep a distance. We didn't see her for years but after fil was put in a hone by ss because he has dementia and she wasn't caring for him, we go a couple times a year (mainly to see him although he has no idea who we are)

Anyhow, her mental health has taken a huge decline recently and she keeps calling 999, the ambulance daily but also refuses to go to GP so he can assess her.
She messages and phones my husband saying she's dying. We know it's the anxiety making her panic. She has been checked over by medical many many times.
She phones all hours and won't listen to reason. We would like her to have her mental health assessed but she won't let the GP do this. We just don't know what to do anymore.
We aren't local so can't pop in and check on her. She lives in middle of near where. She has no neighbors to help because she has been vile to all of them too. She has no family support for same reason.
I have her GPs number and plan to call tomorrow. They won't be able to tell me anything but can I ask for them to section her for her assessment so she can get some help? She was so hysterical early hours of the morning the ambulance took her to A&E because they couldn't get sense out of her.
Help.

Was she seen by psychiatry in A and E? It sounds like a difficult situation. Unfortunately if she has capacity and is refusing assessment/help it will make things much harder. I definitely think expressing your concerns to the GP is a good idea.

Not an expert but it isn't a family that requests section. What happens is that I think 2 qualified people assess the person and if they need to be admitted but won't accept a voluntary admission, they are admitted under a section of the Mental Health Act.

I think to the GP you need to say you are frightened for her safety and can't cope any more as she is unable to accept any help. But I await people who know more.

@Emelene

Was she seen by psychiatry in A and E? It sounds like a difficult situation. Unfortunately if she has capacity and is refusing assessment/help it will make things much harder. I definitely think expressing your concerns to the GP is a good idea.

I don't know, they won't tell us anything and she refuses to either, just repeating that everyone thinks she mad and stupid and then starts swearing at my husband.

You can ask CAMHS for a mental health assessment, but even in the event that she were sectioned she can appeal it or it might just be for a few days, so it's not necessarily the answer to the problem.

I think the GP is probably a good place to start. You might also want to keep a log to remind you if there has been any activity that concerns you.

MIND is a good place to look for advice.
www.mind.org.uk

What happens when she calls the ambulance?

Realistically, with the way things are in mental health, you have to be quite severely unwell to be sectioned under a 136 (a danger to self or others usually).

The best thing to do would be to raise your concerns with adult social care for her area as a concern for welfare/safeguarding concern although I doubt it'll be a quick process.

Tbh I’ve seen this happen a lot. Eventually A&E and psychiatrists will get fed up of seeing her and section her for treatment, usually 4 weeks intensive therapy and assessment. Funds are so scare they only save them for those most in need (aka those making the most noise). She will get put on meds, and after 4 weeks they should have worked enough that she can be released. Then it’s hoping she stays on them! Dunno if that’s reassuring or not.

CAMHS is child and adolescent mental health. (As mentioned above)

You could try raising a concern to her gp or to adult social services?

@PermanentTemporary

What happens when she calls the ambulance?

Because she always goes in via A&E they will do all their checks and as she is neither Ill or urgent, they send her home again

You need to approach adult social services for advice and assessment. If she's deemed to have capacity, and is not a danger to herself or others then there's nothing you can do

I have experience of this.
You need to get SS involved. You need to report your concerns and ask for an assessment.
You can also ask the GP to assess, but they weren’t very helpful to us.
Eventually, if she keeps ringing, the GP and 999 will get SS involved and refuse to attend.

My grandad had dementia and was sectioned. From there he went to a home. We had go involvement, a specialist team at the hospital and adult SS.

They only sectioned him when he became a danger to others. He left his house and started screaming at a neighbour saying she was stealing her car and he tried to drag her out it. It was her car. He didn't have a car anymore. While he was just annoying the NHs with ambulance calls and a danger to himself, no one would do anything.

I helped care for him because it was killing mum and her sisters (no brothers) and their husbands. Mum aged horrifically during this period and died just 6 years after he did.

But there was a difference in your case because there was quite a lot of us caring for him. So you may get more help. But we found very little support, for him or us, until he became a danger to others. But I would suggest your husband still tries if he feels he must. For his own sake.

She won't be sectioned, I know someone diagnosed with schizophrenia who is 'cared for in the community' (not cared for).

Sorry I meant the Community Mental Health Team. Teach me for responding late at night!

My grandmother sounds like yours - she was a very difficult lady and resisted any sort of intervention- hated the 'men in white coats'. She was found one night wandering along the road in her nightie and that's what it took to get her sectioned. We couldn't do anything before that. She was there a month, then moved to a permanent care home

This is for your dh to sort out, sadly she is unsafe and he can call her g.p and the hospital to tell them what she does, there is no point trying to reason with her when she calls, perhaps he could tell the g.p that next time she calls rambling then he will call the police and ambulance himself and refuse to get involved or take any more calls from her.

Update:

MIL called the ambulance again over weekend, then back in, sent hoe and then called them again. She's now in a ward under the mental health team.
We have also discovered she in tens of thousands of debt with CC and catalogs. She's also taken a CC in FIL name (his in a home with dementia).
Really unsure what we do about that? The house is in his name only but we can pay to have it transferred into dh and bil name. But tbh I know the cost will just go straight to his care home anyways.
Any advice??

Does anyone have poa for either of them, I am not sure you can just pay to have the house transferred without his permission if he has capacity and she has the right to live there. If she has been sectioned then she may get free aftercare if she gets placed on a Section 3. They may decide that she needs to move to residential care.
She shouldnt have been allowed to take out a cc for him, or been able to get into thousands of pounds worth of debt, the bank and catalogue should have investigated that before it became unmanageable so your dh and bil need to contact them and the bank fraud dept.
Once the doctors have a diagnosis and a plan your dh or bil need to have a meeting with the psychiatrist and mental health social worker and you can ask about your dh or bil becoming her Nearest Relative if she agrees which helps make decisions on her behalf.

Does anyone have POA for either of them? If not that is something you need to sort out ASAP. More difficult now neither will have capacity but not impossible. Its good that she is now under the Mental Health Team it should mean things are moving in the right direction.

If both have lost capacity you cannot apply for poa, you apply for deputyship through the court of protection and office of the public guardian. For mil you can download and apply for the debt and mental health evidence form which the doctors can help her with if she is unable to consent to signing it.

No one has POA. We tried to look at it for fil but by time we realised he was too far gone. Mil wouldn't agree to let us do it for her.

Bil wants to get the house signed over (it's not in mil name) to his and dh name. I really don't want to do that. We live 7 hours away.

Also bil has no money so any legal fees ect will fall to dh and I

How are they proposing to get the house tfd into their names if no one has POA and FIL has dementia?

You can't "sign over" a house.
It's Deprivation of assets.
That will be looked on VERY dimly by the LA and SS.
The home will need to be sold anyway if she is deemed not to have capacity and I imagine that will mean they won't be as to go after her for the CC fraud.

You cannot transfer the house if he has lost capacity and no one has poa. Who manages his affairs at the moment like paying for the carehome. Even if its not in her name it is still her home, not your bil or dh home. Why does he want it signed over? What does he think that will achieve.

Sounds like he thinks it'll be his?

Very odd.