Should I call the police?

[Triotriotrio]

I know I probably should but it's a long story.

My aunt is 84 and has dementia she lived alone in a house owned by family. At the start of COVID an old friend of hers turned up and said he didn't want her living alone and moved in with her. I don't know this person but he owns a shop she used to use. To be honest though, as I live an hour away it was a relief that he was there to keep an eye on her. My aunt loves him. He was living as her lodger but not paying rent or anything. My aunt always said they paid half the food etc but I have no way of knowing the truth. He has had her bank card for years (as he owed her £10k apparently and was paying it back into the bank each week-or so she said).

He moved out over Christmas but has been going to see her and take her food etc. Anyway this made her extremely depressed culminating in an overdose in January, when finally, after 2 years of me fighting for social services support, they decided she didn't have capacity and have put her in 24 care.

Whilst she was in hospital the LPA for finances finally came through and I've checked her bank account. Over £2k was withdrawn in cash in December alone and another £250 whilst she has been in hospital. Ex lodger said that he had to pay some bills for her which he has done but as far as I can tell they equate to less than £500. No sign of the other cash. I cancelled the card and moved the money to an ISA.

Today I found a bank statement for another account which had £130 withdrawn from it on 31st January, the last lot of cash withdrawn from the other account was £100 on 25th January. She was in hospital from 11th January. He has never told me he had this card or even that it existed.

Even more suspiciously, in Oct there was a 1p transaction from this card to the ex lodgers shop. Almost like checking the card was valid.

I don't know what to do. This man goes to see her all the time and my aunt loves him, if I go to the police then that will end. Also the ex lodger clearly believes that she owns the house herself, which I'm wondering might be a motive for this.

He no longer has access to anything but I should call the police shouldn't I?

Ring the police. Sorry, but what a horrible man he is.

At the very least ask the police for their advice, that way its logged on their system.

I dont think it is as black and white as you think. Would the police be able to prove she didn't authorise him to take the money, probably not. He has no further access to her money and presumably she is not self funding her care? She doesnt own the property so will have very little to leave him in her will if she has written one. He visits her regularly and she enjoys his company. Does she have anyone else that regularly visits her?

Yes, I would. I'd also making an adult safeguarding referral. If you have LPA you need to cover yourself.

Does he have power of attorney over her? If so then sadly he can use her card but it all sounds a bit dodgy. Did she willingly give him the card? If someone was to owe you money then they wouldn’t be allowed to go into the bank and deposit into an account without the actual person there.
I only know this as I had to do it for a parent and was not allowed.
The bank then cut up the card and phoned my parents to double check- all whilst I was standing there. They are there to protect their customers so he must be using the card online.
He sounds like he was abusing the trust of a vulnerable person.

I’d phone the police to report bank fraud and report a stolen card. I’d contact the bank to try explain the situation.
Contact a lawyer to try get power of attorney sorted so he has no access to any of her money.

Meant to add-
If she willingly gave him the card and her pin then there isn’t too much the bank will do as they regularly say they and the police can’t support you if you’ve offered it over.
You’d need to prove that she is not of sound mind or that he’s taken it without her knowledge.

Yes call the police.

Although be aware that fraud investigations can take years and there is unlikely to be any swift outcome.

There have been awful cases of men marrying highly confused elderly ladies to rip them off, despite the fact all sorts of red flags should have gone off with the registrar etc

His intentions are clearly avaricious, who has the LPA? You? If so use it to cancel all the cards snd get new ore issues just to you. Tell the bank this man is not family and has no authority to undertake transactions

I would call police and local authority safeguarding. Likely she didn't have capacity when handing over card and pin and he's took advantage of her vulnerability. He may do it again to someone else..

I've had helpful advice from this helpline in the past wearehourglass.org/

We had this with a carer. My relative was immobile and relied on the carer to get shopping etc. Without our knowledge he gave her his PIN. She emptied thousands out of his account. Nothing we could do. We later discovered she had form for this sort of thing. Elderly people are so vulnerable and it is difficult to protect them.

I have her LPA now... The Office of the Public Guardian lost it originally and so it took over a year to be authorised. she hasn't had capacity in my opinion for ages but because she is very convincing no one believed me until recently.

@hiddenvoice I go to see her once a week and he goes twice. I don't think it's as cut and dried as it seems either. She could very well have told him to take cash but she didn't really know what she was doing. Iver informed the bank and have told the social worker too but I've held off from the police as I don't want to destroy the one relationship that she treasures.

That’s completely understandable. She obviously cares for him and it would be upsetting for her to lose that.
Would you feel comfortable talking to him about it?

So you've told the bank

Are they looking into it and can they ban him from making transactions?

You could then tell him that and your aunt doesn't have to be told anything maybe?

@Hellocatshome

I dont think it is as black and white as you think. Would the police be able to prove she didn't authorise him to take the money, probably not. He has no further access to her money and presumably she is not self funding her care? She doesnt own the property so will have very little to leave him in her will if she has written one. He visits her regularly and she enjoys his company. Does she have anyone else that regularly visits her?

She has dementia. I don't think someone with diagnosed dementia will be deemed capable of making decisions like this.

I would definitely call the police.

Have you gone back through her accounts to see how much he's stolen from her since he's been living there?

@EmmaH2022

So you've told the bank

Are they looking into it and can they ban him from making transactions?

You could then tell him that and your aunt doesn't have to be told anything maybe?

They have cancelled the card and are sending me a new one. I feel weirdly awkward speaking to him about it, which is very unlike me as I'm normally really outspoken and speak my mind. The thing is that my aunt has become increasingly hostile towards me as her only relative that see her regularly and I feel really anxious and guilty about the whole thing.

We had a best interest meeting and they said that it was all my decision as to whether she stayed in full time care or not and I just burst into tears. It was a horrible decision to make even though I knew it was the only one (conformed by Social services who said if I'd suggested anything else they would have appealed it).

Maybe confront the man and ask for an explanation/receipts showing what the money was used for. If the response is unsatisfactory ask for the money unaccounted for to be returned immediately with the threat of pursuing it legally if it is not.

She has dementia. I don't think someone with diagnosed dementia will be deemed capable of making decisions like this. I read it as this happened before she was judged to lack capacity and therefore would be very hard to prove it ws done without informed consent.

@Triotriotrio

I have her LPA now... The Office of the Public Guardian lost it originally and so it took over a year to be authorised. she hasn't had capacity in my opinion for ages but because she is very convincing no one believed me until recently.

@hiddenvoice I go to see her once a week and he goes twice. I don't think it's as cut and dried as it seems either. She could very well have told him to take cash but she didn't really know what she was doing. Iver informed the bank and have told the social worker too but I've held off from the police as I don't want to destroy the one relationship that she treasures.

What did the social worker say/advise?

Their duty of care may well mean that they refer this to safeguarding, I have known that happen with similar situations and where family members were concerned. However if it's only recently that she's been deemed as not having capacity then there may well be not a lot that can be done unfortunately.

OP if they have cancelled the card, could he still do anything with the account number and sort code? I'm guessing not but what worries me if he set up any online access.

Can you check that with the bank?

If the card is changed and only you have it, he's not likely to ask you for it.

It is a dreadful thing to have charge of this. With my dad, I took comfort in the fact that I wasn't doing anything different to what the authorities would advise.

The fact that you are posting here tells us you are a decent, kind person

Sorry, forgot to add
I'd take advice from social services on maybe getting the money back.

Thank you. He can't access any accounts I know about as of today. I stopped access to her main account 3 weeks ago.

I think I'm going to ask him.

If you suspect he's been stealing from her, then I would actually avoid speaking to him directly until after you speak to police. It will only give an opportunity for him to destroy evidence.

She has dementia. I don't think someone with diagnosed dementia will be deemed capable of making decisions like this A dementia diagnosis by itself doesn’t mean you’ve lost capacity. Capacity isn’t a once and for all assessment, it’s a decision based assessment, you can have capacity for some decisions and not for others.

If someone was to owe you money then they wouldn’t be allowed to go into the bank and deposit into an account without the actual person Sorry, I don’t understand this. I can go into a bank or building society and transfer money into anyone’s account, just as I could do a bank transfer to anyone. What I can’t do is transfer money out. I can’t understand why you were prevented.

You’ve got a responsibility to report it.
I would start with adult safeguarding - was any of this discussed when adult social care were involved with the move into a home?

Or start with police, doesn’t matter really - either one should tell each other