Why do we (as a society) do this?

[Zoopet]

So I've just visited my Mum.(stage 4 Parkinsons)
She's in a very good care home and the staff are great.
She had another collapse during the week and was taken to hospital but tests revealed nothing and she was discharged back to the Care Home.
When I visited this morning she asked for the toilet and after the hoist was used and she had to be completely washed and reclothed due to horrendous diarrhoea I was asking myself why do we do this?
It's a miserable existence for her and due to her Parkinsons she has zero quality of life.
She's still convinced that her partner has gone off with someone else( he died from covid last year)
and we have the same conversations every visit.

No dignity just a terrible physical and mental decline.
I just feel utterly depressed.
I hate visiting but will continue to do so but God it is truly awful.
Just wanted to vent.

I completely agree. Euthanasia should be available. We wouldn't let a dog suffer the way we allow humans to suffer.

I'm so sorry. It's so hard. It is truly awful.

I'm so sorry for you. It is an awful situation to be in.

My mum's told me to bump her off before putting her in a care home! I'm not sure of the practicalities of that request however

Totally agree, once someone's mind has gone, what's the point? Who'd want to live like that? And it's so painful for the family.

Unfortunately, by that point it would be too late to consent to euthanasia so it's very difficult. There definitely needs to be some progress in this area, as many say, you wouldn't put a dog through it, it'd be "inhumane".

I agree too. My work takes me into nursing homes. Many of the residents I have known for years and I know their younger selves would be horrified. I have reservations about euthanasia because I fear families would put pressure on their relatives to save nursing home fees. I would believe anything of families now even though tye majority are loving and caring
Most of the residents are being kept alive on a cocktail of drugs and, as long as they get some pleasure or have some quality of life, I think it is money well spent. Once they have no life left I think we are forcing a long, slow death on them with the nursing home owners being the only ones to benefit

It's not just Parkinsons and care homes either. My nan had gruesome ulcers, for decades. They stank, they were agony. She became housebound, then double incontinent. She still had her marbles and sometimes was able to enjoy aspects of life but the indignity and pain and boredom really wore her down, and my poor mum who filled in for the "care" provided. When the pain became too much, she was put on morphine. She would hallucinate and get very paranoid. She was trapped in her home, and my mum felt she had no choice but to quit her part time job to care for her. It scarred my childhood and ruined my mum's life, although my mum put up with all kinds of awful behaviour with very little complaint. She did pray an awful lot.

My nan was taken into hospital a few time, eventually she stayed - for several months. For some reason the NHS decided forcibly feed her and medicate her, which was extremely upsetting to watch as she tried to fight them off. She just wanted to die, I believe. They said she was too out of it on morphine to know what she wanted or needed.

It was an utterly horrific experience and it scared me and my mum witless. Pray to God when I'm old I escape that fate. My mum, bless her, died of a brain aneurysm. Very quick. I would take my mum's sudden demise over decades of suffering with almost no quality of life, any day.

I don't know why we treat older people this way. I think there's a theory that any life is better than no life, and that we should preserve life because there's a chance people might get better, or new drugs make life worth living again. I think there should be more choice, as some people really don't want to go through that amount of pain and misery with no end in sight.

Have you watched the film 'The Father' with Anthony Hopkins. He won an Oscar for it I think. It's absolutely heartbreaking. About a man with dementia. I don't want to be alive if I get it, or if I'm so infirm I need to be hoisted. It's inhumane and pointless.

@GerbilCurse

My mum's told me to bump her off before putting her in a care home! I'm not sure of the practicalities of that request however

@GerbilCurse my mum also says this to me that if she gets dimentia/Alzheimer's to the point she's just purely existing she wants bumping off too.....

Hopefully it'll never come to that, our family history is such that the body seems to give out before the mind so I'm just hoping it'll never be an issue

@Zoopet

I'm so sorry to hear what your mum (and you) are going through.

I've had similar experiences of witnessing family members decline, and for that reason I've decided that were I ever on that path, I'd go to Dignitas.

The option to end your life with dignity at a time of your choosing, should be available for anyone who can give informed consent.

The advance of medicine is marvelous but also cruel as it does prolong the suffering. It's awful to witness.
Sending hand squeezes and deep breaths to carry on 💐

Whilst I'm for human euthanasia with consent, the reason we don't legalise it is because how can you be sure the person giving consent isn't giving consent under duress.

I wouldn't wish to live past the point of caring myself. I watched my mother decline through cancer. It was horrific.

I think it is a really important discussion for us all to have, and to have with our elderly parents. Both sets of our parents had living wills stating very explicitly what treatments they wanted and when, and for how long. Make sure everyone is on board, as it helps if children are aware, and support the decisions made by their parents.

DM had one, and it saved her being taken to hospital by paramedics several times. They persuaded her to go a couple of times, but then when in hospital she was able to refuse treatment, and then return home. Terrible waste, but paramedics tend to err towards treatment, as do hospital doctors.

She was in a care home when she caught Covid, and stayed there, as she wished, and had palliative treatment there, rather than in hospital. Much better for her, and a peaceful end.

Put it all in writing, be explicit, and hopefully everything will go smoothly.

My exH died in December. He was in the early stages of pancreatic and liver cancer. He felt so ill and struggled to look after himself. On numerous occasions he asked DD and I to let him take an overdose and die. He wanted to go and was terrified about what was to come. He had no quality of life and was just waiting to die. In December he had to go in hospital for a small surgical procedure. Two days later he had to go into hospital due to sepsis. He knew exactly what was happening and was glad, as it meant he wasn't going to go through the final awful stage of cancer. He died three days after admission with his loved ones all around him and had been able to say everything he wanted to and his final goodbyes. He was on a syringe driver for pain relief in the last few days and it was far better than the alternative he had been facing.

@Longingforatikihut

Whilst I'm for human euthanasia with consent, the reason we don't legalise it is because how can you be sure the person giving consent isn't giving consent under duress.

I wouldn't wish to live past the point of caring myself. I watched my mother decline through cancer. It was horrific.

@Longingforatikihut

Is there any evidence that this is a significant problem in countries which have legalised it?

I was all for 'caring' for ill and elderly in care homes until I realised that the care home set up just prolongs a miserable life.
Residents are not allowed a life in case they fall or injure themselves. If they do fall the care home is lambasted.
So ---- residents have to be wrapped in cotton wool, not allowed to move around much in case they fall, can't wander out in the grounds alone.
I think we should accept that accidents will happen, which will hasten their demise, and let the care home get on with it.

Euthenasia would be for people terminally ill and with the capacity to make the decision.
It isn't for old people in homes being coerced by family or whatever the worry is. The person would need a diagnosis of a terminal illness so the life would be shortened to avoid the last weeks of pain.

My Dad has some kind of Parkinson's Plus syndrome (can't be definitively diagnosed until after death, basically like very quickly progressing Parkinson's that doesn't respond to treatment) and he is completely housebound and almost completely bed bound, he can only very slowly manage to move between bed, commode and chair with the aid of a Zimmer frame, two carers and my mum, sometimes they have to use a hoist, soon they will always have to. His ability to swallow is declining so he has a chest infection from inhaling food and drink that makes him cough and retch a lot so food gives him no pleasure really. He's incontinent and has the beginnings of bed sores from being unable to move. He has no quality of life and nor does my mum who cares for him. Eventually, he will lose the ability to swallow and will probably die of aspiration pneumonia but he could go on like this and then completely bed bound for years.

I think it's cruel we don't even have the option of assisted suicide for those with mental capacity, who are terminally or chronically ill and who want to die. I think as a society we're squeamish and childish about death in general and would rather pretend it doesn't happen.

I agree with you OP and I'm sorry for you both

There is currently a bill being discussed in Scotland regarding this, hoping it goes through and it's the start of stopping people suffering needlessly.

I agree there needs to be more emphasis on quality of life over quantity. I definitely fear ending my days in a state where I’m existing rather than living.

I’m not even talking about euthanasia I’m talking about treating every illness, invasive procedures for the sake of keeping someone alive way past their natural lifespan rather than letting people go when their body is ready.

I'm so sorry OP, I completely agree with you

I think the reason it's hard to get change going at an official level is because of the risk that it would be abused, either by individuals or by governments.

There is also the risk that it might increase callousness toward elderly people with health issues.

Not enough countries have made it legal for long enough to have a good sense of the risks.

Personally I agree with legalising it but I understand why people are concerned.

I agree.

My dad always told me that if he ever needed nappies to put a pillow over his head.

I'm glad he died. He would have hated what he had become.

I know it's possible to make advance decisions about care, and to refuse treatment, but I'm not sure how far it extends.