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Elderly parents

Social services saying mil must leave residential care

73 replies

Joystir59 · 28/12/2021 04:42

Some of you may remember my previous thread in which I helped arrange residential care for my mil following the death of my wife (her daughter), as it wasn't working her living with me. Here is a link to that thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/elderly_parents/4179405-Advice-please-Elderly-mil-cannot-carry-on-living-with-me
Mil has been happy and settled in residential care following a care needs assessment stating that was what she needed. She has been paying for it herself, and now her funds are getting near the LA threshold I referred her for a financial assessment. A social worker has been to see her and decided she can go and live in a flat. Even though at the original assessment it was decided this would not be appropriate- she cannot manage her own affairs, cannot get around with wheelchair/walker, cannot cook, clean, shop, communicate over the phone. How can they decide now that she doesn't need residential care when in April 2021 she did?

OP posts:
MintJulia · 28/12/2021 04:57

Has her health improved?

I suppose the obvious thing to do is tell them it isn't your problem. Your MIL is not your concern, she is not your mother, and they need to sort it out themselves.

I know that sounds horrible but it sounds like they are trying to force you to take on their responsibility.

If they are willing to find her a sheltered housing type home where there is a warden on-site, maybe they are right, but it is up to them to organise.

alexdgr8 · 28/12/2021 05:02

no. a warden will not, cannot, fill in for care needs of tenants.
that is not their job.
sounds to be totally unsuitable. unsafe.
try to go above that social worker and inform her manager that you are concerned that MIL cannot be safe in such a setting, and refer to the previous care needs assessment.
good luck.

Bibbetybobbity · 28/12/2021 05:52

I would call Age UK’s helpline for advice. The number will be on their website. The call handlers are really qualified and they can walk you through any legal position/ what should be happening etc etc. Good luck.

farnworth · 28/12/2021 06:02

I read your last thread and thought you had been wonderful towards your MIL, and been very pleased she was settled into residential care.

I do agree with the first PP about how it us up to them (or her DD as I seem to remember there is one) to sort out the magical flat she can now suddenly cope living in.
However fond you are of her, her DD needs to be contacting Age UK or kicking up a fuss with social workers.

Pixxie7 · 28/12/2021 06:03

Unfortunately this sounds typical social services obviously whilst she was paying for herself they were happy for her to be in residential care.
I would back off entirely let them sort her out a flat and provide a care package. It is there responsibility to ensure her safety not yours. As pp said back off and leave it to them to sort out, they owe her a duty of care, although I would question why their decision has changed.

Ginandplatonic · 28/12/2021 06:09

Yes, as unkind as it sounds I think you are going to have to step right back and refuse (quite reasonably) to take any responsibility as they will try to make it your problem now the money has run out. Can you refer them to her surviving daughter, whose responsibility this in fact is?

EmmaGrundyForPM · 28/12/2021 06:12

Older People's Social Worker here. Was the Care Needs Assessment that was done when she moved into residential care done by the Local Authority?

I've known lots of cases where people who are self-funders have moved into residential care when they wouldn't meet the LA criteria if they didn't have their own funds. But they wouldn't have had a LA care needs assessment.

I would have a discussion with the social worker and, if necessary, go higher.

Joystir59 · 28/12/2021 06:14

Care needs assessment was done by local authority, yes.

OP posts:
Silvershroud · 28/12/2021 06:42

From your OP in the other thread: 'I have decided that she cannot continue to live here and I'm not prepared to become her carer and give up my freedom. I also don't think her needs are being met, and this will get worse. I want her to go into a nursing or residential home near her other daughter so daughter can oversee her care.'
Do you think the tax payer should provide what you are not prepared to offer? And why should you pick and choose where her care should be? Social care is not there to provide the kind of bespoke service that wealthy people can afford, it is to provide good, basic care on a budget if someone does not have family support.

Toddlerteaplease · 28/12/2021 06:45

Stand your ground. I had a similar issue with my friend. Even the social worker met with both of us. It was clear that residential care was the right thing. I think their attitude was let's try it reassess when it fails. Which is no solution.

kickupafuss · 28/12/2021 06:52

@Silvershroud that is absolute rubbish - social care is for everyone not just those with no family support.

CheddarGorgeous · 28/12/2021 06:53

Do you think the tax payer should provide what you are not prepared to offer?

Yes, because this is what taxes are for, caring for elderly people who need care.

No one is morally or financially obliged to provide care or support for anyone other than their own children.

WiseUpJanetWeiss · 28/12/2021 06:54

@Silvershroud

From your OP in the other thread: 'I have decided that she cannot continue to live here and I'm not prepared to become her carer and give up my freedom. I also don't think her needs are being met, and this will get worse. I want her to go into a nursing or residential home near her other daughter so daughter can oversee her care.' Do you think the tax payer should provide what you are not prepared to offer? And why should you pick and choose where her care should be? Social care is not there to provide the kind of bespoke service that wealthy people can afford, it is to provide good, basic care on a budget if someone does not have family support.
No, elderly MIL is entitled to the social care she needs. OP is not obligated to provide any of that.
WiseUpJanetWeiss · 28/12/2021 07:01

Joy I think you need to repeat "I am not her carer" and "I will take no part in facilitating this unsafe decision that is not in MIL's interests" ad nauseam.

LaDoIceVita · 28/12/2021 07:17

Is it possible that the SW meant a flat in an Assisted Living scheme? Residents have their own flat but there are carer's on site 24/7, main meals are provided in a communal dining room and other needs are met.

It's a very dificult situation for you. If you get involved to protect your MIL's best interests then SS will do everything they can to get you to pay for care, or take it on yourself. But it isn't easy for you to say 'Not my problem' and walk away when there are concerns about adequate care being provided. You have my sympathy and I hope things can be resolved for your MIL without too much stress for you.

Joystir59 · 28/12/2021 07:43

I will have to advocate for her best interests, which is to stay in the residential home where she is settled and happy. And in keeping with the nerds assessment done last March.

OP posts:
Joystir59 · 28/12/2021 07:45

I'm not her next of kin and will not be expected to care for her or pay for care. Neither will this be expected of her daughter. My mil paid taxes all her adult life up to retirement She now requires the state support she is entitled to receive.

OP posts:
middleagedmarch · 28/12/2021 08:09

Social workers are legally bound under the Care Act 2014 not to offer disproportionate care. So, last April, it may well have been assessed that at that time what was required to meet your mil's care needs was residential care. Now, it may be different. Her needs might have changed. They may be thought better addressed at an assisted living facility.

Many LAs make social workers argue the case that a person needs residential care so it's not necessarily the individual social worker's fault. The res care panel may have just rejected it. And yes, this is partly due to how poorly LAs are funded. If your mil's needs have reduced/can be better addressed by lower order care, then for her to stay in res care means her taking the place of someone else who needs it more. LAs just don't have the money to fund everyone's care, and so a system is needed to rank need.

However, it's also partly about not illegally putting in place care that goes beyond a person's needs. Research shows that to do this discourages independence and leads to learned helplessness. Most LAs these days start off with a care package at home to support nutrition, bathing, etc if the needs warrant it. If needs worsen, then sheltered housing is considered with a warden on site during the day. Next level up is assisted or 'extra care' accommodation where a care team is available overnight and then - and only then - a residential care home. The LA will also review annually to check needs meet provision and if needs have reduced, they will question why that person should be in res care. Why should they pay for a person's place at res care level that someone else needs so much more? The LA money just isn't there to do that.

It may be, as well, rightly or wrongly, that the threshold goalposts get moved. This may appear unfair but LAs can't continue to afford paying social care costs for an increasing number of older people. Adult social care is reliant on government funding. If society wants LAs to do this, they shouldn't vote in a government who repeatedly cuts funding year on year.

Government underfunding of the state sector, whether that be LAs or the NHS (see also the recent thread on the difficulty of securing ambulances in an emergency) is a real thing and hits many people really hard, especially if they are on limited incomes and don't have access to private health care or who can't privately pay for a care home. Being relatively poorer = less choice at the end of the day.

This doesn't help your particular situation, I know, and I can see how worrying and frustrating it is. I only describe it here for the bigger picture to be seen. It's not necessarily the individual social worker to be blamed - or even the Res Care Panel. Arguably, neither is it the LA at fault. Moreover, - and I'm a very far throw from being a Conservative voter - you could argue that the government, too, is following its mandate to the electorate who voted them in.

CovoidOfAllHumanity · 28/12/2021 08:21

I think you should get her an advocate eg from Age Concern or get her daughter to step in so that you can withdraw as really this is very much no longer your problem. She will not under any circumstances be coming back to you so you don't need to be involved and I would suggest you don't take on this fight.

Why is it you would referred for the financial assessment? It suggests you are managing her finances. Do you have LPA?
Her daughter should have it or she should have an LA appointee if she cannot manage finances herself.
My impression on the last thread was that you didn't want any involvement any longer and if that's still true you should not be looking at her bank account.

I would suggest that she should challenge this assessment with the help of her daughter/ Independent advocate and ask why the needs assessment now differs from the one done when she moved in but it will be a long involved fight.

In the end if the LA want to arrange for her to move into a sheltered flat with a care package then they have to do that with no assistance from you. Make it clear that you will not be helping her move her stuff or providing any support in any way when she is in a flat. However your actions now have to tie up with that stated intention and currently they don't

Soontobe60 · 28/12/2021 08:22

@Silvershroud

From your OP in the other thread: 'I have decided that she cannot continue to live here and I'm not prepared to become her carer and give up my freedom. I also don't think her needs are being met, and this will get worse. I want her to go into a nursing or residential home near her other daughter so daughter can oversee her care.' Do you think the tax payer should provide what you are not prepared to offer? And why should you pick and choose where her care should be? Social care is not there to provide the kind of bespoke service that wealthy people can afford, it is to provide good, basic care on a budget if someone does not have family support.
Social care is there to provide care for anyone who is in need of it. The woman had a needs assessment which determined that she required residential care 6 months ago. She has paid for that care for 6 months. She now has run out of funds, so it is up to the LA to fund it. Therefore she meets your criteria of requiring good basic care.
Lovelydovey · 28/12/2021 08:31

I think you need to think carefully now about your involvement in this and draw red lines.

So set out now that you will ask the difficult questions of social services (what has changed that means that their previous assessment is no longer the same?) but that you aren’t going to provide solutions (so ask questions about where she will be going, what support there will be, who will arrange it etc) and don’t get drawn into practical support. And practice saying statements like “I am not responsible for that”, “please confirm that in writing”, and “that is for you to sort out” confidently.

TheWomandestroyed · 28/12/2021 08:35

@LaDoIceVita

Is it possible that the SW meant a flat in an Assisted Living scheme? Residents have their own flat but there are carer's on site 24/7, main meals are provided in a communal dining room and other needs are met.

It's a very dificult situation for you. If you get involved to protect your MIL's best interests then SS will do everything they can to get you to pay for care, or take it on yourself. But it isn't easy for you to say 'Not my problem' and walk away when there are concerns about adequate care being provided. You have my sympathy and I hope things can be resolved for your MIL without too much stress for you.

What are the Assisted living places? I'm in Scotland and the only thing like that I am aware off is private, ie you buy a flat and then pay a charge for using any help provided. It's very expensive.
2irishmums2be · 28/12/2021 08:39

Has an OT or physio been involved? Or who has decided her functional ability has changed? My understanding is social workers gather reports from the professionals assessing their needs then the social worker does the chatting

MichelleScarn · 28/12/2021 08:42

Is it possible the time she's has had in care has been a form of rehabilitation and she is doing better therefore her needs have reduced?

WhiteXmas99 · 28/12/2021 08:43

I think you need to focus on the needs assessment.

What does the current care home say about the level of care she requires? Can you get them to provide an assessment. If she has been there for 2 years they will be better placed than you or the LA to make this judgement.

I cannot judge whether the LA offer is appropriate or not. But you can not insist they continue funding in situ just because she has been there for a while.They can move her to a cheaper facility provided it meets her needs.