Social services saying mil must leave residential care

[Joystir59]

Some of you may remember my previous thread in which I helped arrange residential care for my mil following the death of my wife (her daughter), as it wasn't working her living with me. Here is a link to that thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/elderly_parents/4179405-Advice-please-Elderly-mil-cannot-carry-on-living-with-me
Mil has been happy and settled in residential care following a care needs assessment stating that was what she needed. She has been paying for it herself, and now her funds are getting near the LA threshold I referred her for a financial assessment. A social worker has been to see her and decided she can go and live in a flat. Even though at the original assessment it was decided this would not be appropriate- she cannot manage her own affairs, cannot get around with wheelchair/walker, cannot cook, clean, shop, communicate over the phone. How can they decide now that she doesn't need residential care when in April 2021 she did?

Glad to hear the care home manager is helping you. I hope MIL get to stay in what has become her home.

It can't help wondering if the expectations on you would be the same if you were male...

@Kenwouldmixitup

Morally, it is not acceptable to expect a person in their later years, who six months was assessed as needing residential care, to now undergo the physical upheaval of moving and settling in a new and unfamiliar setting; with the attendant psychological trauma of being forced to break trusted bonds made with people in the residential setting.

This is morally abhorrent

Totally! It disgusts me.

Has she ever been sectioned do you know?

I hope you get the outcome you want and your MIL needs now. What an awful situation to put your MIL in, getting settled and then moved on. Not right at all.

Hi @EmmaGrundyForPM

Off-topic for this thread, but I have another thread under "Elderly Parents" where I'm asking about retirement flats/sheltered accommodation for my elderly Dad and step-Mum. Someone mentioned having a needs assessment for them. How do I go about arranging this - do I ring the local council or speak to their GP?

They seem to be struggling at home even with a cleaner, etc. so I need to start looking to other options - my Dad's keen to move. Any advice welcome. Thx.

@Cameleongirl

Hi *@EmmaGrundyForPM*

Off-topic for this thread, but I have another thread under "Elderly Parents" where I'm asking about retirement flats/sheltered accommodation for my elderly Dad and step-Mum. Someone mentioned having a needs assessment for them. How do I go about arranging this - do I ring the local council or speak to their GP?

They seem to be struggling at home even with a cleaner, etc. so I need to start looking to other options - my Dad's keen to move. Any advice welcome. Thx.

You need to contact your local authority and request a care needs assessment. Be aware that their first thing will be to send someone out from the independent living team to see how to support them.to stay in their own home.

@Silvershroud

What a lot of nonsense...we all pay tax to fund social care. So I expect this lady to be able to receive the funding needed to stay in a care home if that is what she needs physically and mentally.

Also, amazing how 'daughters' are expected to give up their entire life and magically become 24 hour carer, whether they want it or not or can realistically provide that support. @Ginandplatonic it is wrong to assume that adult children are not automatically there to be carers..

Adding sexism to silliness...

@SkegnessShogun

Has she ever been sectioned do you know?

Why do you ask that?

Mil seems to prefer to receive support from.a team who have no emotional connection to her.

I remember yout original thread OP (I had a different username). By your latest update it's looking hopeful that all will be well and she will be able to stay put. Try to step back from this. It's certainly not ideal that this is happening but this shouldn't be disrupting your sleep. You are a kind and lovely person but you are not responsible for this woman's wellbeing. You are giving more of your heart and soul into this situation than your health can sustain. Try to disengage - its ok to ask to be kept informed and to contribute useful information when needed, but resolving what happens next is not for you to worry about.

@BuanoKubiamVej

I remember yout original thread OP (I had a different username). By your latest update it's looking hopeful that all will be well and she will be able to stay put. Try to step back from this. It's certainly not ideal that this is happening but this shouldn't be disrupting your sleep. You are a kind and lovely person but you are not responsible for this woman's wellbeing. You are giving more of your heart and soul into this situation than your health can sustain. Try to disengage - its ok to ask to be kept informed and to contribute useful information when needed, but resolving what happens next is not for you to worry about.

Thank you for your kind words. If Social Services do persist in saying that they will only fund extra care living, I will step back and let them sort all of that out. And I have already told them so, but will reiterate it when the time comes. But before that happens I will raise a formal complaint and I will go to my local councillors

@Silvershroud

From your OP in the other thread: 'I have decided that she cannot continue to live here and I'm not prepared to become her carer and give up my freedom. I also don't think her needs are being met, and this will get worse. I want her to go into a nursing or residential home near her other daughter so daughter can oversee her care.' Do you think the tax payer should provide what you are not prepared to offer? And why should you pick and choose where her care should be? Social care is not there to provide the kind of bespoke service that wealthy people can afford, it is to provide good, basic care on a budget if someone does not have family support.

So you don’t include OP as a taxpayer?

We had exactly the same. My mum had a massive and disabling stroke 12 years ago. When she left hospital she was admitted to a nursing home, as she is completely paralysed down one side and largely helpless apart from being able to feed herself with her right hand.

She self-funded for years, which took the proceeds from two houses and her entire savings. When the council had to take over the cost, they decided that she would have to move to a flat in an extra care block.

My brother and I were totally against this, especially as they said that in addition to having four carer visits a day, she was likely to need family support. I live two hours away, and my brother has health issues, as well as constantly being emotionally abused by her all his life. We both said we could not support her, but the council went ahead anyway.

The carers have an office down stairs, and they do all her personal care. They also do her shopping, but of course only prepare the most basic of meals as they don't have time to cook from scratch.

Fortunately my mum likes her own company and didn't have any social life at the nursing home, as she has her marbles and most of the other residents didn't. So she's quite happy in that regard. But her care and her nutrition is nowhere near as good.

This was supposed to be a cost-cutting exercise on the council's part, but we've seen the bills and her rent and care plan come to more than the nursing home did. It's insane.

@Silvershroud

From your OP in the other thread: 'I have decided that she cannot continue to live here and I'm not prepared to become her carer and give up my freedom. I also don't think her needs are being met, and this will get worse. I want her to go into a nursing or residential home near her other daughter so daughter can oversee her care.' Do you think the tax payer should provide what you are not prepared to offer? And why should you pick and choose where her care should be? Social care is not there to provide the kind of bespoke service that wealthy people can afford, it is to provide good, basic care on a budget if someone does not have family support.

@Silvershroud

Did you read the bit in that thread that this is his mother in law? Ie not a blood relative so why are you having a go at him?

She has another daughter, why aren’t you having a go at her!

However, the care manager at the home is fighting Mil's corner

You are very fortunate. Sadly my mum's nursing home manager was almost certainly relieved to have her move on. She was a thorn in their side. I suspect that if she hadn't been, we'd have stood more chance of keeping her there.

Re having been sectioned. I read a post on here a couple of years ago that said if someone had previously been sectioned then it made a difference as to what care they received and whether or not they had to pay for it themselves.

It caught my attention because we were fighting for NHS CHC for one of my parents who had advanced dementia but were told their needs weren’t bad enough. And at the same time one of my friends had been sectioned due to a Bipolar episode. I remember thinking that it was a strange system if someone could have been sectioned as a one-off decades earlier and then basically get free care when elderly, and yet an elderly person who was a real danger to themselves was denied funding.

I might have misunderstood it but it would be interesting if someone in the know could clarify.

Maybe the question about has she ever been sectioned was because there are circumstances when someone can receive full funding if they have ever been admitted under specific sections

This is called s117 funding,

www.rethink.org/advice-and-information/rights-restrictions/mental-health-laws/section-117-aftercare/

A quick google suggests the Mental Health Act S117, there's some basic info on the Care To Be Different website.

It's clear as mud to me but hopefully someone else might know more about it.

@Silvershroud

From your OP in the other thread: 'I have decided that she cannot continue to live here and I'm not prepared to become her carer and give up my freedom. I also don't think her needs are being met, and this will get worse. I want her to go into a nursing or residential home near her other daughter so daughter can oversee her care.' Do you think the tax payer should provide what you are not prepared to offer? And why should you pick and choose where her care should be? Social care is not there to provide the kind of bespoke service that wealthy people can afford, it is to provide good, basic care on a budget if someone does not have family support.

That's all well and good, but people pay taxes all their lives for a reason. The taxpayer should be footing the bill for this, and the OP, as far as I can remember from the previous thread, the lady's next of kin.

The op is not next of kin, that should say.

How I wish for an edit button.

I am glad the manager is going in to bat for MIL.
Has your SIL stepped up at all to share the load?

@Joystir59

Mil seems to prefer to receive support from.a team who have no emotional connection to her.

I think this is entirely reasonable and I would be the same. If someone has to bathe or toilet me I would like it to be a professional rather than a relative / friend. It preserves dignity more I think.