Father Critisising Teenager

[Charliesunnysky10]

My dad is 78 and has become anxious and withdrawn over the last 18 months. He is also quite demanding and needy because he has nobody to bounce off. My mum died 20 years ago and he has a lady friend who lives an hour away but since covid he's nervous about using the trains, and driving worries him so he no longer sees her.

He has never babysat or played with my kids, though he has come round in the evening to watch the house while they've been asleep, and when they were older just been downstairs as an adult on the premises. He's occasionally asked then how they're getting on at school but there's no kind of relationship. My eldest is at Uni now, and the younger one 14, but she's sullen and awkward round him, and he says to me she is rude, and ignorant because I often invite him over as I'm conscious he is lonely, and she stays in her room. He recently got a smart phone and is causing quite a few problems with it, texting random hurtful and troublemaking messages to myself and my hubby. He has nothing to do all day and is semi-reclusive, so he overthinks. I work full time, and do volunteer work 2 evenings and my hubby works away at Heathrow during the week. My son at Uni also works a 30 hour week so we are all quite busy, but Dad will text, expecting an instant response because he looks at his phone all day. I've explained that we oftdo look at our phones (son & I aren't allowed on them at work except emergencies and breaktimes). He sends messages saying how disappointed he is with us which really upsets me, but I understand he's lonely and feels isolated. However I'm a bit torn because I really have to watch my own mental health. I trained for a marathon earlier this year and he was very negative about it, saying it will kill me. And I actually dropped out of training because he convinced me I was being selfish, but then I put on a stone and he started making me feel fat because he said I have to modify my diet because I don't exercise. And I just thought I was being controlled/gaslighted so I managed to get my training back on track and did the marathon in the end. But it was almost in spite of him, because he holds me back with his negativity. But often he is complimentary and offers supportive words when I'm down. I just feel it's all part of a kind of subconscious effort to be in control because he has not much else.
I mention this just to give perspective. I'm prepared to have a chat with my son and daughter and ask them to be a bit more accommodating, given his situation But it's really tough sometimes striking a balance between supporting him with the little free time I have and trying not to take on board the unkind negative remarks.
How can I change the way I approach this so we have a better relationship with him?

You tell him to stop. Every time he makes comments like this. You refuse to answer if he texts horrible things. And if he’s lonely! He has only himself to blame for alienating you all.

Well - he's an unpleasant person so its not you who needs to change. It's him - and he won't because he's 78. It is what it is. Put in place very firm boundaries and then work on not feeling guilty.

I feel your pain. My dad turned 80 this year . My mum died 3 years ago and although I have a brother (he lives abroad) he leans heavily ion me.
He is just so passive aggressive for example we took him out for a birthday meal and when we came back he said that to my 3 year old son you need to sweep Mummy's door step look at the mess of it!I told him if he was so bothered he could clean it himself as I work full time nightshift and have no childcare . It was only a few bits of moss that the birds hard dropped so no big deal.
You maybe need a break from him . My dads expects me and my sons to go to his every Saturday on of my sons is a teenager and really wants to see his mates. I took a few weeks off as we are genuinely busy and it was lovely. I feel so bad as my dad is 80 and is lonely

@sleepismyhobby oh I totally understand that. Good for you, saying he should sweep it himself 😂
Its like you can't ever do enough, sometimes! I have taken a break - I had covid so didn't see him for 11 days till my LFT went negative. But he doesn't get it. He was like 'This is very inconvenient. I need you to help me tax my car online and I need a lift back from getting my car serviced'. I know he's getting older and has no perspective, but it's hard being around him. If he was just a work colleague I'd avoid him like the plague for the draining effect he has on me, but he's my Dad so I can't. I know that I need to change my perspective but I'm so snowed under I don't know where to begin!

I wouldn't be asking my DC to be more accommodating of him. I'd be telling them that you understood exactly how he made them feel, because you feel the same. I would also say you understand that them withdrawing from him was completely reasonable and you wouldn't force them to increase contact.

@Wolfiefan and @FFSFFSFFS exactly this.

But if I ignore him, I feel bad, because I'm all he has. I keep thinking I may not have many years left with him and I'm lucky to still have my Dad because lots of people my age and even younger don't.

It's so difficult trying to be compassionate without getting hurt and feeling guilty.

@justmuddlingalong

I completely agree.

But I asked her to be polite and say hello with a smile if she's gonna disappear upstairs. She burst into tears, saying she feels guilty now and nobody understands that she doesn't feel valued by him so she doesn't want to engage with him, but I said part of growing up is being civil and polite at the very least.

And I feel like I've passed on my really unhelpful trait of ignoring your own feelings in favour of other people's, when they're not doing the same for you.

Well -
It’s pretty crap that you’re treating your daughter like that. You’re just passing on his abuse to her.

Why are his needs (and indeed your own emotional needs) worth treating your daughter badly for?

I dont think you’re lucky to still have your sad around. He sounds horrible.

He’s not being compassionate! You’re never lucky to be spoken to like that.

@Justmuddlingalong

I wouldn't be asking my DC to be more accommodating of him. I'd be telling them that you understood exactly how he made them feel, because you feel the same. I would also say you understand that them withdrawing from him was completely reasonable and you wouldn't force them to increase contact.

Yes,this. @Charliesunnysky10 Please don’t do that to your kids - get them to “be nice” to him when he’s so very unpleasant to all of you. Why does she owe him that? I’m afraid that’s just training them to be doormats who think they don’t deserve kindness and respect from others.

@FictionalCharacter
See I know you're right, but it's really tough because I do see that she's sullen and I want her to be at least polite, so she won't look back and regret that she wasn't at least understanding that he's old and probably early stages of dementia.

She's 14, she doesn't have to get along and be civil with anyone that's rude to her. And you forcing her to do so is only going to dampen your relationship with her, maybe have a chat and explain how you're feeling and she'll realise that you're not happy with what's happening and how it makes you feel but you feel obliged because he's your dad

I think many of us who have strained relationships with a parent, are at risk of doing our kids a disservice by overly encouraging them to be civil and making an effort with a grandparent, when it's not forthcoming in the other direction. With other friendships and relationships we've no problem telling them to ignore nasty comments and behaviour and to not feel bad about cutting people who bring nothing joyful to their life out. It's all a bit EastEnders IMO, we've all got to stick together coz we're family, but that doesn't wash for me.

Some kids reach that sort of age and just won't put up with it, unfortunately for you. But sometimes grandparents will listen to them. Mine have gently disarmed some clumsy anti-Brexit comments and borderline/'unintended' homophobia from FIL. By politely saying 'that view wasn't very enlightened Grandad, here's why... '
Would your DD call out the comments /texts when they're by saying it's a bit hurtful? Sympathies with you as sullen is a default setting isn't it!

Actually, this really struck a chord with me. I really do encourage her value herself and not 'keep up appearances'. I just can't stand the idea of him being lonely and sad. I wanted to find a way we can all be happy. Though I realise that might not mean being together.

I sympathize, my Dad wasn't always easy. Knowing about his own childhood helped me understand why he was the way he was, even though it didn't change his behaviour or make it less tiresome!
Re kids - tell them you 100% understand them, that you only want civility, they don't have to pretend he's Grandad of the year, and it's good practice for the workplace when you have to be diplomatic to your irritating colleagues.

Re you - have a think about what actually DOES improve things for you or your Dad, and drop everything else. Let the old adages "put on your own oxygen mask first" and "don't set yourself on fire to keep others warm" be your guide.

Doing stuff that just makes you resentful is counterproductive - he needs you to be there for him in future and if you burn out or grow to despise him, that's not good. Learn to deflect or farm out stuff, so that you are not running on fumes by the time the shit really hits the fan.

I sympathize, my Dad wasn't always easy. Knowing about his own childhood helped me understand why he was the way he was, even though it didn't change his behaviour or make it less tiresome!
Re kids - tell them you 100% understand them, that you only want civility, they don't have to pretend he's Grandad of the year, and it's good practice for the workplace when you have to be diplomatic to your irritating colleagues.

Re you - have a think about what actually DOES improve things for you or your Dad, and drop everything else. Let the old adages "put on your own oxygen mask first" and "don't set yourself on fire to keep others warm" be your guide.

Doing stuff that just makes you resentful is counterproductive - he needs you to be there for him in future and if you burn out or grow to despise him, that's not good. Learn to deflect or farm out stuff, so that you are not running on fumes by the time the shit really hits the fan.

@mysterofwomany

Thank you so much...This is really helpful on all levels. I really appreciate it x

Well, to be honest, he’s reaping what he’s sown.

He’s not been a kindly grandfather to the DC. He couldn’t give a toss about them and knowing them as individuals.

Have you had any therapy to address your relationship with him?

You’re worried that your DC will feel guilty when their DGF dies because they didn’t spend more time/understand him more? This man doesn’t seem to have made any effort to understand or spend time with them over their lives so why should they feel this?

Have you been on the Stately Homes thread on the Relationships board @Charliesunnysky10?

Unfortunately, it seems like you have a dysfunctional with your DF that has led to unhealthy behaviours (like the marathon upset).

Step back, look after yourself and your DC, get some therapy and draw some boundaries.

…also, I think your DD is justified being ‘sullen and awkward’ towards a family member who frequently upsets her parents and siblings with hurtful messages and emotional abuse. Plus she’s kicked out of her room (which at 14 is her sanctuary) so this man can stay and inflict more upset? She can’t even escape him being there in her home by retreating to her bedroom because it’s been given to him?!

I’m all for manners, respect and care being shown to elders and grandparents. My 87 DM stays in my 16 year old DD’s room.
The difference is though, my DD has a lovely warm relationship with her Nan. They adore each other and my DM has invested love, time and interest in each grandchild since birth.
My DM is also not an arsehole to my DD’s mum too (unlike your DF ☹️).

Please reassess what you’re asking and expecting of both yourself and your family

@stath sorry, maybe that read wrong. He never stays over, and I'd never throw her out of her room. She is very much my priority. I had just wanted to try to do the best I can for them all.

I picked up that you’d seen a change of personality over the last 18months. Change of personality can be an early sign of dementia, but I see you’ve already considered that option. Of course it could just be because of Covid isolation and stress.

I’d try to explain to your daughter that he’s not in his right mind and therefore his opinions don’t have value. Therefore there’s no need to be valued by him. You could try explaining that to yourself while you’re at it

I would expect my daughter to say Hello in this circumstances and nothing else, I wouldn’t plan a joint meal or board game together. And I would stop any comments from him straight away. I would tell him not to text her ( if he’s texting) and allow her not to reply. Yes, he’s old but she’s young and both characteristics deserve equal respect imo.
My DD has no relationship with her grandad at all. He’s not in UK we see him very occasionally and he’s not interested in her in the slightest. He’s also very tricky person ( even worse then yours) When we are visiting I never expect her to deal with him beyond hello and good buy tbh it’s just too much for her, he’s my Dad and I deal with him myself entirely.

Please don’t teach your daughter that she has to be polite in the face of mistreatment. She doesn’t owe your father anything. Refusing to engage with him IS being polite and civil. “If you don’t have anything nice to say, don’t say anything at all.” She doesn’t owe him ANYTHING.

I really hate how children, especially girls/young women are pressured to be ‘nice’ or ‘polite’ regardless of how someone has treated them. All it does is teach them that their feelings aren’t important, that they’re of lesser value and worth than others.

If your father wanted to be treated with consideration, he ought to have behaved as someone worthy of it. Instead, he’s treated his family poorly and now whines about the consequences of his actions.

Personally, I’d apologize to your daughter for pushing her, and support her. Protect her from your dad’s insults and negativity, starting with blocking him from her phone, and visiting with him outside your home.

Family/DNA isn’t diplomatic immunity. Nor is age. I’m betting you wouldn’t tolerate a coworker or friend treating you, your kids or your spouse this way. Family should treat you BETTER than those on the stre, not worse.

I had a great aunt who was similar. Her comment on my cousin getting a uni place was “ooh, I suppose he’ll become a drug addict”. Mum and I survived by being polite to her then having a good bitch when the opportunity arose. It didn’t teach me empathy for the old.

I suppose the tolerance for family members is that family always exists when friends drift away. We teach our children to be tolerant partly in the hope that that tolerance will be shown to us should we have a mental decline in old age