In laws in trouble WWYD?

[Hairydogmummy]

I'll try to explain this as briefly as possible! My PIL live in the ROI. They were forced to sell their home 3 years ago to avoid repossession and were left with what we thought was enough to buy a little bungalow. Turned out it wasn't and they moved in with my SIL. They put what little money they had left into things for her home. Her home was also at risk though and she has now made a deal with the bank to be able to stay there and pay what she can but if it's ever sold, it will all belong to the bank. I don't know any more than that. She hasn't worked properly for years due to various health issues and my PIL are saying their pensions to run the house. Our niece, is 20 and is treating my FIL like dirt, insults etc. He's already had a stroke about 4 years ago. All of them in the house are on antidepressants and MIL and niece have therapy as well. I have no idea what to do. They are staying with us at the moment for a week. The only money we have is in our home. They are saying they can't go on social housing list over there since their pensions are too big. They could possibly barely afford to rent a flat or something privately but then what would SIL so without them. DH is wringing his hands saying there's nothing we can do.

What benefits would they be entitled to in ROI? State pension, housing benefit, anything at all?

How much money is still in the bank? Is it enough to get them any home at all?

This unfortunately sounds like two households that are unable to manage their money and plan for the future. Unless you're wealthy I would absolutely avoid making any major financial contribution (certainly anything that you are unable to afford to lose) since the situation is unlikely to change.

SIL appears to now sort of rent from the bank (presumably some sort of lifetime equity release plan that has paid off her debt but now the house belongs to bank), but still doesn't have enough to stay in her home without the financial contribution from her parents - is niece likely to leave home any time soon?

Parents could possibly rent privately, but are they likely to be able to keep up with their rent if they aren't good with managing their money? Would they feel obliged to continue to try to support SIL and yet again put themselves at risk of eviction?

Your dh is right, you can offer sympathy and respite but probably no practical support.

I don't know the Irish welfare system. But if ILs have good pensions can they not rent privately? A small flat perhaps, is there housing benefit to top up their rent if they can't afford it?

I'm puzzled how 4 adults haven't got enough money between them to pay rent.

Is there any hope of doing equity release for your SIL? I wonder if the bank would allow it?

Well it sounds like the issue is your niece's relationship with PIL, rather than just finances. Does she have any plans to move out? Do SIL and PIL have an ok relationship and would they manage ok financially if it was just the three of them?

I'm also a bit confused about the money situation. PIL must have some kind of private pensions if they can't go on the housing list - also some savings left. Is SIL working or on benefits? What is the situation with niece - working, studying, benefits? It does sound like one house with four sets of money of some description coming in. And the housing situation in Ireland is not better than here so goodness knows how low they would be on a social housing list.

I definitely don't think (even if you could) that you and your DH should be contributing financially but perhaps DH could point out to SIL (and niece if he has some kind of relationship with her?) that if niece continues to be so horrible PIL may simply not be able to continue living there and they may all end up homeless. Also what happens if one or both of them have to go into a care home? Their pensions will then go towards those costs.

@RedCarsGoFaster they get state pensions, yes and FIL has a pension from his work which is quite good I believe but it's all going on supporting SIL, niece and the house. There's no money at all left from their house now. We only found that out yesterday. I had hoped they could do shared ownership or something but no. @ditalini yes you've pretty much summed it up. Niece is at uni but comes home every weekend and that's when it kicks off. Her boyfriend has moved in too and until recently neither was paying anything. It's utterly mad really. @LadyDanburysHat I don't think all of them could rent together. It's a disaster them living together as it is. They poss could just about afford rent but as someone else said, I'd SIL carries on as she is, they could well still end up in trouble. They really would have to leave her to sort herself out and think of themselves.

Could you have PILs to live with you?

Rents in Ireland are very high and the rules and regulations relating to renting and landlords etc. over the past number of years (basically since 2007 when the property bubble burst) are very very different to those that are in the UK.
If your parents have "too much" in their pension, then they are doing very well for themselves, whatever the situation relating to property happens to be for them.
I'd recommend that your PiL contact their local council to see if they can be put on the housing list but as you're no doubt aware there is a massive issue at the moment in relation to the availability of affordable housing and council housing.
Your SiL and her daughter needs to be treated separately as it would be easier to find a 1 or 2 bed accommodation than a home suitable for housing the whole lot of them.
They may need to move out of the area that they've been living in and start again in a more affordable part of the country for them.

Best advice is to say "I'm sorry you find yourselves in this situation but there isn't anything that DH or I can do to help you."

I didn't mean ILs rent with SIL. I meant rent on their own and get away from the toxic situation. Living with SIL is not going to work and they can't spend their pension bailing her out. Her financial situation is her problem and they need to sort out their own problems. They are not really in a postion to help her.

@unfortunateevents it really is complicated. SIL is on benefits and rarely works due to one health issue or another. Some of it is obesity linked so not all bad luck. FIL has private and state pension but it's all going on helping out SIL. Niece is working and studying as is her boyfriend. They weren't contributing until recently and how it's more a token amount I think. They all spend money still on stuff they don't need and holidays. None of them are blameless at all. It's a bad luck and bad judgement situation for sure.

Honestly, PIL should surely have enough money with two state pensions and a private one to be able to rent for themselves. SIL's house is obviously large enough to accommodate all these people (3 bedrooms?) but if PILs move out then she only needs a smaller place, particularly if niece should/could(?) be moving out soon.

Why can’t the PILs move out and rent privately? You say they have state pensions and the FIL has a good work pension. When you say they put their spare money into things for the house, do you mean like a fridge or TV? Could they take those with them? Obviously things can’t stay as they are.

Yes @unfortunateevents I think they could afford to rent just about. They already live in a fairly cheap area I think but rents have gone up as it's commutable from Dublin. SILs house is big, if she left it though she'd be homeless literally and have to get some sort of council flat. @Mosaic123 suggested equity release but there is no equity of hers in the house now. It's all the banks. I don't even know if she has to pay them a certain amount to carry on living there.

Just to say @Hairydogmummy - you may get more information and advice if you post on Craicnet on MN. Maybe someone there can advise you on how the Irish system works (or in most cases doesn't) and if there is anything that can be done for your inlaws and your Sil & her daughter.

I agree with your DH, unfortunately you can’t do anything.

Personally I would be waiting with bated breath to see if the niece graduates and gets a job because her financial independence and ability to move out might be key to peace returning. Fingers crossed she’s studying something which has a good chance of resulting in a job!

Your inlaws could move to the UK. Your DH is right. There isn't anything you can do. They will have to sort themsdves out. I certainly woukfn't givd them any money.

The Irish benefits system is extremely generous.

If they have too much money through their pensions to be put on the social housing list, why on earth can't they privately rent an apartment?

It sounds like your SIL is financially using and draining them. They need to get into a place if their own before they are all left homeless .

There have been a lot of high profile deals struck with the banks recently from people in long term arrears/problems servicing their debts to enable them to stay in their home. It sounds like your PIL really shouldn't have sold up and left their house, certainly they shouldn't have given your SIL all their money. If she can't survive without their contribution, then you need to look at why - she may be on an 'older' deal with the bank that isn't sustainable with whatever benefits she gets, and possibly that could be negotiated down. Or she may just be terrible at handling money.

Your PIL should be able to leave and privately rent. I have no idea how much pension they have, but there is a good chance they would be eligible for HAP which is basically rent supplement. However, they might be viewed as having deprived themselves of assets, if they handed over a large sum to SIL recently.

It sounds very much like everyone is in a situation of their own making and you're not getting the full story. Ideally, they would talk to MABS (money advise and budgeting service) and maybe Intreo. But if they've somehow spent presumably at least a hundred thousand in the last few years with nothing to show for it, (because there's no way they had enough money to 'buy a bungalow' anywhere in the country for less than that) then I can't see what you can do to help except possibly make it clear to your SIL her choices are take your niece and boyfriend in hand and make them move out or lose the income she gets from your parents.

Pouring your own resources into this won’t help, it will just enable them.

The only way you could help is if you could afford to buy somewhere, in your names, for the PIL to live in.

Maybe at a low rent, to cover the interest.

An investment for you.

But that sounds way out of reach.

Your inlaws could move to the UK - this is not a good plan. If they don't qualify for social housing in Ireland, where are they going to be able to live here? Also what would be the situation with regards to healthcare, etc? I am Irish but haven't lived there for years and my parents have now died so I'm not particularly familiar with what is happening there at the moment but uprooting elderly and unwell people to another country is never going to be easy, even if it was their desired option. At minimum , they are going to have all the cultural differences, dealing with currency fluctuations and exchange rates for their pension - and as the UK is no longer part of the EU, who can foresee what may change in future?

It's really tricky but it sounds on the face of it as if all generations are making bad financial decisions and the younger generation aren't learning anything from their elders either!

What do ILs want to do?

It sounds like they are funding everyone in the household including the daughter and her bf. Id be advising them to get out.