Any other options Direct payments vs care company

[Chaoplexatologist]

Hi I wonder if anybody could give me some advice hopefully somebody who has recently used direct payments it's for peers or use the carer agency. Someone who has used both would be ideal answering as I don't know what to do.

I've had carers before or 350 minute calls the day and it didn't work out because it's geared up for older people who need getting out of bed etc. They were coming to put me to bed 6 p.m. which was ridiculous. Direct payments has worked out very difficult because if one person has time off I have nobody else to cover those hours. The problems are being I'm still paying for those hours whether they are used or not.

Have any of you had the direct experience of using a care company have blocks of care of up to 45 mins a day rather than 15 minute calls? If you have can you tell me how this worked out and did you have the same carers every week?

I'm in a right fix at the moment and feel so down and depressed about it. I'm fed up of all the 2 years and I'm fed up of people telling me what to how long is just 60 am I have but I don't want to be treated like a 90 year old. I hope someone can help me sort this, thank you.

I forgot to say I have the help because I'm registered blind. I also have two neurological conditions, one which is progressive. I need help with going out, basic personal care cook in light duties housework etc. the Piers will put in place to enable me to live my life the way I wanted however covered put paid to that and I'm paying so much per month I don't even put the heating on now now. Thank you so much for reading - I hope someone can help.

I'm sorry if some of my message doesn't make sense I use speech to text technology and I swear it hates my accent.

Hi all,

The OP didn't know where to post this thread. She's posting about herself, not an elderly parent, but we felt that the caring and knowledgeable Mumsnetters in this topic will hopefully be able to help her.

As she's said, she's registered blind and is using speech-to-text technology, so there may be some typos.

Best of luck, OP. Over to you, Mumsnetters

Thank you got your help @DawnMumsnet

I feel every sympathy for you - inappropriate timings is something we all wrestle with. Being put to bed at 6pm is just as inappropriate for a 90 year old! It’s the combination of everyone wanting to be got up at the same time and put to bed at the same time, and carers generally not working after 9 or 10 pm. But you should be able to see some improvement.

My father had carers twice a day for 30mins. Getting up was about 9.30, which was OK for him but might be too late for you. Bedtime was about 8.30, not ideal but an improvement on 6pm. This was Social Services arranged care, and he was a self funder.

It sounds really tricky
I think ideally you’d find an agency that’s more used to working with younger people, or an agency that can be more flexible.
I guess I’m saying not all agencies are the same. If you shop around you may be able to find one that can do the length and timings you want. If you use your direct payments to pay an agency then you aren’t restricted to the council approved agencies.

Or if you have direct payments, you have a small team of carers that can cover for each other, and/or you have an agency that knows you that could be back up if they’re not available.

I couldn't find my post sory got the delay response full stop new paragraph. I didn't mean anything bad about being 90 years old I was trying to convey that I'm 59 and should still be living a busy life in my professional career, travelling, enjoying hobbies and visiting family and not be comma oh I don't know comma spoken to as though I am frail and very very elderly full stop

It's a month since my and I'm still in the same position of.not no mix return full. I just feel it's getting more depressed in everyday I want to go out places and do things in be with people and be part of life if and be 59 again NH. I haven't had my haircut for almost 2 years because nobody can take me me to get it done and I can't find a mobile hairdresser is little things like that. I've spoken to a care company and they making arrangements to come and see me me to see if they can offer the type of support that I need meaning I'd be able to go out. I don't need getting up or put into bed but the mix of my conditions means the I'm not safe if doing my cooking and I will able to go out alone due to my vision I can't go and see my family and just feeling tears so much of the time I'm I want to go back 3 years in go back to work and get excited planning looking forward to holidays and the loneliness is probably going to be the thing that kills me I never realised it could hurt so much

,, I'm so sorry might speak to text doesn't seem to put full stops and paragraphs in so I hope there's not too confusing sorry

I’ve used direct payments in past you have contract with agency same if you are paying client (most direct payment users have to pay something towards your share of the bill anyway) You are the one that decides if a 45 minute slot works better than 3 times 15 minutes.

If the agency can’t find staff to cover shifts you need you can try and use another agency or try find a private carer and use payments there. You will have cover payroll costs and the like but still work out cheaper than agency rate.

I’ve also used private carers with the funding and the only checks are made are with how much they are paid per month and how many hours no one is checking they are exactly what you care plan says. For example if a social worker decides you only need 15 minutes but you find it works best longer. You are the best person make that call same as any other adult.

So many care agencies make you feel like shit to be honest and that you should be grateful for anything even if you are paying through the nose. Don’t take no for answer and take business elsewhere if can’t sort decent hours. It’s a business same as any other.

Thank you so munch for a detailed answer. It is very useful. If if I use the care agency would I do the payroll myself or would the agency actually do the payroll is they will employ the carers? Blocks of time I'm rather than quick in and out calls so really hope the recommended company can do this. They have already said the the pie I use now can be made an employee of their company so I can carry on with somebody I know very well L4 at least half of my hours. I don't mind paying for my care whatsoever what I do object to is having to pay for care when none has been provided because the payroll company haven't advertised for the necessary help. and has been nothing I can do about that to get somebody else in

Well that is a very apt name for a name change fail isn't it? I was trying to keep my post separate I am going through a very difficult time I'm. But anyway who cares it's an anonymous forum.

You said you use care agency now right? I was talking about hiring your own carer. If you have own carer no way would I let the agency pinch them as they will charge you loads per hour more than you pay now.

When I’ve used direct payments I’ve advertised or found people from their job wanted sections. You interview and check references then use a payroll company. Quite few around for direct payment users your council may have a list. You basically pay set fee mine was around £15 month and then by a set point in the month you tell them the hours. They then pay your carer into their bank account with a payslip with correct tax and everything then you pay them the total sum. There is paperwork with HMRC to register as employer and pension stuff but you can get assistance.

The only thing I would say is private carers hardy every want to do short visits as not in their interest with travel time. I always had to combine hours visits to get care I wanted. But unless you have a family carer available 25/7 you are never going get exact care you want. For me having finally say on times days and hours was worth it even if meant longer gaps between visits. Care agency would filled gaps but loads of turn over and times changing often. Each system has its pros and cons but worth a go. If it doesn’t work there is always agency to fall back on.

I think you need to look into a PA rather than carers. Depends where you are in the country but there are some private companies that can provide you a support worker rather than traditional carers and social services should be able to provide you a list, or RNIB or SightAid x

Would you be better employing a PA carer instead rather than ones who just do calls. Then you could get out more.

Cross post!

2020isnotbehaving hello no At the moment I am using peers via a payroll agency. I'm not happy P&O that if they keep failing to get adequate cover for when 1PA is off. 1 peers now had to be dismissed due to gross misconduct and I'm still waiting for cover for this this means that I'm only getting less than half of my allotted hours the time paying for.. everyone else speak to give me different answers about why I have to pay the money for a pie but the payroll company isn't even advertising for have now done for weeks with only one pie and in the last 3 months have only had 2 weeks we're both peers of words yeah after have to pay full amount of money. The payroll company is at fault for not advertising for new staff. When I initially had direct, payment I have just lost my vision and those two have two neurological conditions one of which is projective and it was decided that someone managing my account would be the better option for me. Sadly this hasn't worked out well over the last full year I've only used about one-fifth of the allotted hours and I am now 280 + hours in credit. It was suggested to me that I might get Get Better Care are or more appropriate care from a care agency where they would employ their the carer for me. It's quite a difficult situation that I'm in in and the social worker isn't too quick either. She also forgets what she's supposed to be doing or what she's promised me she would do do. I don't know if a care agency is going to be better for me me I just know this chest is adding to the depression. It's a decision I have to make by myself but I honestly feel like telling them all to f off in leave me alone and I'll managed by myself but I know that won't happen because I need help going out and cook in another other test I'm not safe to do a lone or I can't do a loan. Please excuse any spelling or grammar mistakes this f* speech-to-text tonight is doing my head in. And it won't even let me swear properly!

@AnImposter

I think you need to look into a PA rather than carers. Depends where you are in the country but there are some private companies that can provide you a support worker rather than traditional carers and social services should be able to provide you a list, or RNIB or SightAid x

Hi thank you for helping. Are yous p a s at the moment the moment via a payroll company and it isn't working well because I barely get one week where I get more than half the hours allocated actually used. This is why I am looking into a care company. I have someone come and see me from a care company to see if they can offer the type of help that I need if they can't help I will be looking for another payroll company. I don't feel I can do all this by myself in weak in week Out because of the conditions that have got and I'm terrified of getting into a mess with paid as PAYE and that ni contributions for employees.

@Toddlerteaplease

Cross post!

That's ok ok I'm very good at cross-posting myself

You should not be charged for cover you are not getting. I’ve not heard of a payroll company providing PA’s I presume that’s what auto correct does when you write peers. But if you are in credit with hours then these hours must be free to use.

I care agency doesn’t employ Carers for you they send you their staff. Unless this is some strange system I’ve never heard of.

Either way maybe best time for a change the present situation has had least a year and cant provide what you need. What have you got to lose?

Oh and care agency usually invoice you each week or month and you pay them no payroll or anything to sort. Just general audit your direct payments each quarter or how every often your council needs to see your accounts. So not much to get in a mess with. Agency’s are very quick remind you if you haven’t paid in 10 days or whatever.

@2020isnotbehaving

You should not be charged for cover you are not getting. I’ve not heard of a payroll company providing PA’s I presume that’s what auto correct does when you write peers. But if you are in credit with hours then these hours must be free to use.

I care agency doesn’t employ Carers for you they send you their staff. Unless this is some strange system I’ve never heard of.

Either way maybe best time for a change the present situation has had least a year and cant provide what you need. What have you got to lose?

Thank you you again with your help I really do appreciate it speech-to-text can't handle the abbreviation for personal assistants I'll say the abbreviations for personal assistant 4 times now and see how many times it comes out correctly PH phys pas pie. Not very good really is it. This just add to my frustration The payroll company is there are just to provide personal assistance to individuals or families but need care are at home ma but I'm not suitable for a caring agency. They do all the recruiting advertising and payroll but it is up to me to do all of the employee employer responsibilities duchess s someone for gross misconduct. The care company I've spoken to to normally do the traditional three or 4 visits a day but they will also employ care assistance to come and do block bookings for cases like mine where I need help going out or going to hospital appointments etc I asked on the phone phone if they would employ my current pa as she is very good and I've got to know well so I'm comfortable with the personal care she provides me with such as showering. Someone from the care company is coming to see me to discuss this in more depth and find out what I need. I'm finding it All frustrating. The payroll company insist I pay for All Hours whether used or not full stop the social worker agrees with this. A support worker does not agree with this. I got advice from a disability group who said I can claim the hours back I showed this to the social worker and payroll company and they said this was wrong. I got back in touch with a disability group and contacted the head of direct payments audit department who was fully explained how to use or get reimbursed for unused hours and which unused H can be reimbursed. The payroll company still isn't happy P&O probably because they lose money.

@2020isnotbehaving

Oh and care agency usually invoice you each week or month and you pay them no payroll or anything to sort. Just general audit your direct payments each quarter or how every often your council needs to see your accounts. So not much to get in a mess with. Agency’s are very quick remind you if you haven’t paid in 10 days or whatever.

Would the invoice from a care agency go to me or to the council? It will be funded by direct payments. I have quite a large contribution to pay each week and it's Total Care I pay for or is just over one quarter of my income.

With direct payments you run everything. So each month I would receive a sum from the council with their share and I had to top this up by direct debit with my share.

The care agency send bills to you as you are 100% responsible and liable for the costs. You then do a bank transfer standing order or cheque back to them from the direct payments account. This is a totally separate account and can only be used to receive and spend the care money. The council then ask for bank statements and all invoices to check where the money has been spent. Usually 3 times a year just case you fancy spending it all on holidays or other such things.

I don’t understand why you are paying care you don’t get. Maybe for odd week but when they can’t cover hours over a year they are taking the biscuit!

Sounds like you have made steps with agency. They should be able explain how payments and things work for direct payment users as they will be big part of their clients as not everyone can afford pay for their care themselves.

You have been so helpful I really do appreciate the time you spent helping me tonight. I'll respond properly tomorrow but now I must get some sleep I just wanted to come back and say a big thank you to you

No problem happy to help. Do hope things looks brighter for you, we all deserve have basic care for things we feel are most important. Sleep well

There’s something called the Rowan Association
www.rowan.org
I don’t know much about it except it works in some area of England and Wales .
They take direct payments and work with all ages including children.
I saw people looking for carers in the local newspaper.
It might be worth taking a look.