Anyone seen the situation with grandparents... and now dreading the inevitability of it with your own parents?

[LadyWhistledownsQuill]

I've been fairly involved in the care of elderly grandparents, lurching from crisis to crisis, since my mid teens. We're about 15 years down the line now - and tbh the remaining one (who I love dearly) has lived much longer than anyone really expected. I'm an only child of a divorced only child, so I've ended up as second in line for all of these matters, providing a fair amount of emotional and practical support (nowhere near as much as my DF though!) and am under no illusions about the indignities of old age.

My own parents are now in their late 60s, and still in good health, but not getting any younger. I'm looking at them and foreseeing all of the issues that have arisen with my grandparents.

Yet neither of them - particularly DM, who hasn't had to deal with any of it - seem to realise that they will likely end up decrepit. DM is currently choosing between living indefinitely in a third storey flat with no lift, or moving 200 miles away . Upon pointing out that it would mean that I'd be essentially totally unable to provide any form of care or support to her if she was 200 miles away, her response suggested that she assumed she'd be dead before needing any sort of help so she wasn't going to factor in any possible future care needs She's deaf to any suggestions otherwise.

DF is only marginally more realistic, having dealt with the general grimness of elderly care. Yet his response to any suggestion of future-proofing his own home is that he plans to hang himself before he gets to that stage Once DGP passes away - but before rose tinted glasses start to appear - I intend to have some very blunt conversations about him needing to plan for the future.

I'm foreseeing a situation in which I'm an only child with divorced parents, each on opposite sides of the country to the other, and in need of some level of support which I'm not really able to give, each having made it as difficult as possible to help them (DM in particular). None of my friends who are a similar age have had similar experiences with grandparents, so they just can't relate!

I sympathise. My MIL is 75 and currently fit and working three days per week but was recently told her bone density is terrible and she seems to be having trouble absorbing some nutrients too.

She lives in a massive 3 bed house which she was thinking of selling last year...she wanted a 2 bed house and to have no more mortgage so work was not needed.

Will she do it? Will she hell. She's spent thousands making small, unnecessary improvements on her house so it will sell for the best price but won't actually put it on the market.

We think...though have not said...that she should do it all now so that if she's in her 80s and not so fit, she won't have the upheaval etc.

She's not having it. Now as it is, she'll work till she drops paying the stupid second mortgage off or she'll get to the point where she can't work and so can't pay it off and will have to be moved....delicate or unwell...to a new place. It's so worrying!

Yet neither of them - particularly DM, who hasn't had to deal with any of it - seem to realise that they will likely end up decrepit
Do not be fooled they know fine well what will happen to them, they are choosing not to engage because they know this leaves you in the position of having to take up the slack. Be warned you will be presented with a fait accompli and your 'golden years' will be consumed by their ever increasing needs unless you take evasive action

I've seen it happen with my mum and dread it happening to me

It's so worrying
And this is exactly how she intends it, she is making sure that your attention is taken up with her needs, gradually training you so that you get used to having her as the focus of your life.

To be fair if they are healthy in their late 60s and have avoided many of the typical ageing related illnesses there’s a good chance they don’t need to worry until their 80s. While some planning is useful you can’t expect them to stop enjoying their lives now or stop making plans that suit them just in case they become decrepit in old age. It’s like you’re wishing the present away. Are you often really anxious?

At the worst scenario remember you can sell their houses if they need residential care, so there doesn’t have to be a huge impact on you.

If you are worried the best thing to do is have a conversation now, be honest and realistic about what you can offer them in terms of help and support as they age, then armed with that knowledge they can make plans accordingly and no-one can be maneuvered into anything that they don't want to do.

The fact you are ‘aware’ puts you in a positive starting point. The downside is you are now watching both parents with radar vision. They sound like they are on different pages to each other and to you, so you have three different styles of future proofing to negotiate.
I’d play it by saying at 35, you are future proofing, as it’s never too early to begin . Get your own POA done and your own pension in good shape and update your parents constantly about your shelf in the wardrobe/ dining room etc where you keep your birth certificate, pension contact details, your will and why if you can do it, so can they.

@GrumpyHoonMain

To be fair if they are healthy in their late 60s and have avoided many of the typical ageing related illnesses there’s a good chance they don’t need to worry until their 80s. While some planning is useful you can’t expect them to stop enjoying their lives now or stop making plans that suit them just in case they become decrepit in old age. It’s like you’re wishing the present away. Are you often really anxious?

At the worst scenario remember you can sell their houses if they need residential care, so there doesn’t have to be a huge impact on you.

They're both living very average lives for people of their age but have the sort of age related things that often precede heart attacks and strokes and so on (high blood pressure etc).

I'm not a particularly anxious person (indeed, I am often told off by DF for assuming that things will work out ok!)

I don't want to try and stop them doing normal things, but I wish they'd do them with one eye on the future - like DM moving somewhere more suitable (ie not up 40 stairs) while she's still capable of organising her own house move, and preferably not to an area of the country that's as awkward as possible. I predict that 40 steps to the front door will be impossible long before residential care is necessary! DF desperately needs a new bathroom and is continuing with inadequate plumbing (eg some of the taps don't work any more) for no good reason; in an ideal world I'd like him to replace it with one where the layout makes retrofitted adaptations easy at a later date.

Instead they're taking the ostrich view of the future and assuming that they'll both die quickly and cleanly with no preceding ill health and general decrepitude. If they sorted stuff now then they'll have a life that's closer to their ideal later on.

I would just gently remind them that they will be the ones dealing with the consequences of their bad choices

I absolutely understand your fear. When I was ten, my gran became ill, and eventually housebound, incontinent, and increasingly nasty and uncooperative. She also lived in a 3rd floor flat with no lift, eventually she simply HAD to move as she couldn’t get out of the house to go to hospital or the GP and my mum couldn’t carry her down three flights of concrete steps.

So I’d encourage your mum to stay in her flat rather than move 200 miles away, and simply wait until she is closer to desperate for an easier life in supported accommodation or a ground floor flat. When she realises she needs you, she probably won’t want to move away so far.

My Gran died when I was 32, so my poor mum had 22 years of ungrateful gran expecting my mum to do everything for her - my advice is SET BOUNDARIES. So be very clear to what extent you will expect her to get help if she is struggling with cleaning, shopping, mobility, personal care, keeping her company, taking her to appointments, helping her to socialise, getting her hair cut, or whatever.

I have a brother but he is extremely useless, and lives overseas. So I know it is all on me and I have tried very hard not to take too much responsibility for my mum, but I love her, and it is hard to say no. (My dad died some years ago - a lot of parents don’t live to become a burden for decades, but you’re right to have a plan in case they do.)

My mum learned from her experience with my gran, but it took time for her to decide what steps were realistic. Similar to your DF talking of hanging himself, when my mum was younger she’d assume she wouldn’t be any burden - she talked of me “sticking her in a home and forgetting about her” or eating a large quantity of a food she knows she has an allergy to and “ending it all” when she becomes a burden. Now, however she is in her mid-80s and determined to live forever! She has moved to a small property very close to my house, near a bus route and a supermarket, she has learned to use the internet and is as little trouble as possible, although she does need more and more help now as her mobility is limited. I have researched some lovely little assisted-living flats in case she needs more help in future, that are near my home (and turn over frequently as the occupants don’t tend to live long).

My point is, your parents thinking will probably evolve as they accept the reality of old age. It might be really stupid for your mum to move 200 miles away but she must have a reason -Perhaps it is in her mind to be far enough away that she isn’t ever a burden on you. Are you able to have that conversation really frankly, and ask her, and explain you’d prefer she stayed nearby? It is a heck of a lot easier to visit and help someone who is nearby.

Your dad seems a lot more like my mum in his thinking, that horror of draining someone else’s life away through decades of caring. BUT in my case I do want to help care for my mum, so over the years I’ve made that clear and together we’ve made a plan for how to cope with different eventualities.

is extremely useless, and lives overseas
this is probably the best strategy to adopt

Looking after my DGD has absolutely destroyed my DM. Its soured all our relationships in the family as my aunt (her sister) lives abroad and so has escaped the burden. My own sister also lives abroad so yes, I can see our relationship becoming strained in a similar way, however my DM is a million times more capable than my DGD and so wouldn't need her lunch making for her whilst she's still fit and able. Also due to her experience with DGD she is determined not to do the same to me but I don't know how this will play out, will she just refuse help when she clearly needs it or will she organise her own..I think you can only do what you can do in your situation and set boundaries early on. Care of the elderly in small families is a very difficult thing to navigate.

She has moved to a small property very close to my house, near a bus route and a supermarket, she has learned to use the internet and is as little trouble as possible, although she does need more and more help now as her mobility is limited. I have researched some lovely little assisted-living flats in case she needs more help in future, that are near my home
Bless her 😇💗

Not so much my own mother really. She is 70 and has some mobility issues and glaucoma plus a benign brain tumor which isn't causing too much bother. She has a small house which is currently manageable although she is contemplating having a downstairs loo put in which would be really helpful anyway. She and I were carers for my grandmother who moved in with us when I was 15 and needed a lot of care as she was bed bound apart from using a commode. We haven't had a full talk about it but my mum doesn't want either my sister or I to give up our jobs to care for her once she can't manage at home. She's looked at some supported accommodation and said she would be amenable to it if the time came.

My mother in law on paper is the healthier one but has higher risk of dementia based on family history. She's incredibly scatty now (recently drove into a car park via the exit destroying both front tyres. She saw the no entry signs but says she didn't know where the entrance could be so just kept going). She handed over the bulk of caring for her parents to her sister who was working at the time and limited herself to going one evening a week for a meal that she brought round and reheated. Never did so much as a food shop for them or bought new socks/pants/nightwear. I refuse to be a carer for her so it will be down to my husband and sister in law to decide what they will offer. I don't think it will be much based on the last few years and the fact that she wasn't actually the good mum she claims she was. Everything was always and still is in her terms.

All through DM & DF's late 50s to late 70s, I suggested they look at their house and see if it would be suitable for their old age. They scoffed at me - they didn't need to worry about this.

I gave up when they were about 78 - DM had developed severe osteoporosis and DF had glaucoma. I told them not to move as it wouldn't be a good idea any more, and we needed to plan their old age in their house. More scoffing.

They're now in their 80s and live in a house that doesn't work for them at all. Steps everywhere - front of house, back of house, down to the loo, down to the conservatory, upstairs. Mum is in danger of falling over furniture that is too big for the house, and it's still full to the brim of stuff they can't bear to get rid of. Not as bad as the TV shows, but imagine every room full of furniture with only walking routes through.

They didn't imagine this - the frailty, the forgetfulness, the lack of energy. The old age ailments and illnesses, the length of time it took to recover from anything.

You can't do a thing - you have to let your parents do what they want, you can't force them to take the sensible route unless they decide that. And they get even more stubborn as they get older.

You won't be surprised to hear that as fit 58 year olds, DH and I have already downsized, thinned out our stuff and moved into an apartment with a lift. If nothing else, our respective parents have taught us what not to do. We now plan on enjoying ourselves for the rest of our lives, having already done the difficult bit. And we wait for the phone call that says DM or DF has had a fall, and they can no longer go upstairs.

They are defaulting it to you, which is very unfair.

• Decide now what you can/cannot do for them. If DM wants to move 200 miles away for example; that's her choice. She will need carers in, when she gets frail. You will not be going up and down the motorway every week.

• Lock down the legal side. Wills, POA (health and financial), funeral wishes, etc. I have just watched my parent go through this with my grandfather and it's prompted some very honest conversations about future-proofing, illness and death. (Un?)fortunately, we had a bad health scare last year and they are not burying their heads in the sand about it.

• You can't nag your dad into compliance about his bathroom, but perhaps you can lure him in to doing it with pictures of nice, shiny new bathrooms, accessories, luxury touches etc. No-one wants to think about old age, but everyone is receptive to a lifestyle upgrade.

I'm absolutely dreading it. Every time I read a thread on here about how hard it is, my heart sinks and I feel sick with worry about it.

DH's parents are divorced and re-married, so there's four of them to worry about. And his step-dad and step-mum don't have children of their own to step up. I can't see DH taking much responsibility for them - he has a tendency to bury his head in the sand, and while he'd never ask or expect me to take care of them, I know myself well to know I'd feel I have to.

But my DM will be even worse. I've never met my dad, so I suppose on the plus side there's only her to look after, but I'm an only child, so there's no one else to step up, either. She combines incredible stubbornness and a deep dislike of being told what to do with a tendency to ignore anything she finds boring or depressing - as an intelligent and healthy 64 yo, she's already trying to shunt responsibility for all her "life admin" onto me, which I'm resisting as much as possible.

My big fear though, is that as an alcoholic with 27 of sobriety behind her, she may "forget" she doesn't drink if she gets dementia. I don't think I'll be able to be around her if that happens - put bluntly, her drinking nearly killed me, I don't think I could cope with it again. But equally I don't know how I'd cope with the guilt of not being there for her in her final years.

Honestly, I'm kind of dreading the next 30 years of my life.

Greebo, sounds like it's going to be a clusterfuck whether you're involved or not... Move continents now and save yourself the grief

I'm an only child, so my parents will be on me. Luckily they moved to a house that's quite large but easy to look after, and is set up so they can manage. Both are 80 but in decent health, mum gave up driving years ago but dad enjoys it. They can walk to shops and get a cab to the station if they have to stop driving. I foresee them moving mostly downstairs in the future, and a bedroom could be given to a carer, but at some point I guess I'll have to be sorting out a small end-of-life apartment for one or both of them.

We were hugely worried about MIL who has been semi-disabled for years and had major chest conditions. She dropped dead in Nov 2019, which was tragic but she would have never coped with lockdown - too sociable and would have been terrified of catching it. Silver linings...
FIL (85) has spent the last year walking 5-10 miles a day with the dog, collecting the newspaper and having a brief chat across the road with neighbours, then watching sport on TV. SIL has delivered food weekly. He's happy as can be, though we hope to see him soon.

I have 1 DC in this countryand 1 has emigrated his wife's country. I intend to move a long way away but to a nice place to visit. My intention is for him to be too far away to get sucked in to care.

@GreeboIsMySpiritAnimal my friend’s mum was a gregarious alcoholic who at 60 gave her daughters a large folder called The Death Book which detailed her every wish and her life’s paperwork. She was found dead in her bed as she predicted but her book guided them through. It’s an idea I’m stealing when I hit 60.

My mother didn't care for her own parents. DGM was in a care home for the last20 years of her life and mum just visited now and then. However mum has depended on me for the past 20 years plus and is now in her mid nineties. She did move from a big property to a small bungalow 10 years ago which has been great and has accepted carers with no problem over the last couple of years. She has controlled my life by insisting that my disabled sibling who has autism lives with her still. Mum thinks she is my sibling's carer, but in fact this has defaulted to me.

Surely if you are dreading it the obvious thing to do is have an honest conversation with your parents.... does anyone do this though?

@patienz, I'm sorry that you've been stitched up like this ☹️

Thank you. I've been having the conversation with my mum, and social workers for decades. They all say they are happy living together so no need for anything to change. There will be a big shock for my poor sibling when mum dies