Elderly parents taking no responsbility for themselves

[happywriter]

I have posted before on this forum. I am at the end of my tether with my parents denial in old age and things are gettiing slowly worse. I don't know where to turn anymore and it is affecting my own mental health dealing with it

They are in their early 80s and living in the house they've been in for the last 40 years which is a semi detached and no downstairs loo and nowhere near any amenities. There is also a neighbour dispute spanning the past 30 years so I can't for the life of me work out why they stay there. To cut a long story short, it isn't accessible for my dad who has terrible mobility and toilet issues. They keep shopping in the car boot as they can't carry shopping bags up the path!

My dad still drives and to be fair, his physical driving does seem ok, however it is obvious his driving days are coming to an end soon given his age and other abilities. When he stops driving he will be housebound. This is another story for another time but their answer to that is for me to step in and drive them around even though I don't drive and have 3 young kids, 2 with ASD. I will certainly help them out when I can but they have isolated themselves.

My mum is a narcissist and doesn't like being told no, I get guilt tripped and digged at constantly about this. She threw a total wobbler when I told her I am not driving. My parents won't pay for taxis and for appointments they don't want nhs transport because 'the neighbours will see it' . Very much Hyacinth Bouquet style, what must people think. Any time the car is in garage for MOT or breaks down she goes crazy and can hardly cope. It is embarrassing. I dread the day he stops driving. My dad is so passive and is controlled by my mum, he is like a little boy and does everything she says.

My mum whines 24/7 about 'how hard life is', she can't handle getting workmen, gardeners (when they aren't mowing the lawn themselves with one at each end of mower handle ), moans constantly about the noise from the neighbours. I often come off the phone to her wanting to burst into tears. I actually can't carry on like this for much longer.

They are in the habit of blaming outside factors for everything. It is the council's fault that the bus stops are too far apart, if they get lost they claim road signs have been moved (when they've not), lockdown is to blame for my dad's senior moments, etc. These are only a few examples, it is unbeleivable the things they come out with. Anything except face up to things.

Recently my dad has also been having many what my mum would describe as 'senior moments'. However I have suspicions there is more to it, however my mum will never admit it so that's another struggle I potentially have on my hands .

I am so stressed and frustrated with them, and just want to tell them to take repsonsibility for themselves and stop moaning. I actually think they sometimes enjoy the drama.

You really need to put some boundaries in because otherwise you will fall apart and your children need you.
Screen your calls, be less available. Show them that you won’t drop everything for all their dramas. Is it time to suggest they sell up and move to an assisted living place? You should suggest it.

Your parents' behaviour towards you is hard wired. It won't improve as they get older and more frail. If anything it will get a whole heap worse. They obviously see you as their 'back up plan', hence their previous rudeness about driving. You giving them advice to move will fall on deaf ears. Don't waste your breath. They have to decide for themselves.

Difficulty after difficulty will beset them across the next five years as they have failed to plan.

The only solution you have is to modify your behaviour towards them.

I have tried so many boundaries it is crazy. One time this resulted in an argument that went on for 3 months (they huffed then turned it around to me). I have reduced the time I spend with them and call which has helped a little.

I have suggested them moving to a more suitable place but they flared up abd started laughing like it was a ridiculous suggestion. They are in total denial. My mum is even planning on wallpapering the hall and living room so have no plans to move from that house at all .

She has 4 sisters who won't say a word, and they have even suggested me I get a car!! Nothing at all to them though about actually taking responsibility fir themselves. They are as bad as they are.

Really sounds like they at least need carers coming in and you will probably need to take a big step back in order for them to get the message there.

They may need some sort of assessment of their needs by adult social services too in order to help get things moving and get through to them.

Would warden assisted sheltered accommodation be suitable? Or would your mother refuse to even countenance that idea too?

It's so hard isn't it. My mother is 86 and recently widowed as my Dad died in March. It had taken a few medical emergencies and scares (during which my sister and I did help them as much as we could) but they got carers about a year ago. It has had it's hiccups but has really been invaluable.

After my Dad died and my Mum found herself alone for long periods it didn't take her long to realise that her house was no longer working for her. Even with people coming and going, she would be isolated and lonely a lot there. She isn't able to walk far and can no longer drive due to eyesight and other medical conditions so is totally dependent on other people to get anywhere.

She didn't "get" what it would really be like while my sister and I were virtually living with her during our Dad's final illness (neither of us lives near there). It was a realisation that she had to come to herself and she has. She was very resistant to the idea of moving at first, but after even just a couple of weeks she had started to change her tune and has now put her name down for some local sheltered accommodation where she would have her own self-contained flat. She is now really into the idea of having the warden on hand, and friends and a community in the same building. The decision to probably leave her home of over 50 years though is not a simple one and it had to come from her.

All you can do in your position I think is make suggestions. You have enough on your own plate too. If they resist then you must step back as you have your own family to consider too and will be too thinly spread. Your sanity is important too.

Speak to your parents' GP too. Put them fully in the picture and see what services are available locally to them. Be clear that your own family situation will not allow you to be considered their carer.

It is so hard (and sad) when elderly parents are losing control in their own home. For them and for their families. I think meeting resistance to the changes needed is very common as well as understandable.

Mum5net, you are right on the money with all you said, it is only going to get worse as they get older and this is why I feel so low, it is like there is no solution and I am stuck dealing with this circus.

Yep I am their back up plan and it ain't happening. I have yeara of grief ahead and I feel like I am suffocating. I have stood up to them ablnd it is horrible, dealing with a narcissist is impossible. An elderly narcissist is torture.

This is not your problem unless you want it to be. They have the right to live where and how they like, even if to your eyes their life would be much easier if they lived elsewhere. What they don't have the right to do is demand that you should spend your time, money and effort enabling them in their decisions.

So as Charlie says, put those boundaries in, don't always be available to answer calls. Not driving is a big asset to you, it's a lot easier to refuse to give lifts if you don't have a driving license. Suggest they get a trolley to help them carry shopping up the path. (The neighbours' raised eyebrows at NHS transport will be as nothing to their raised eyebrows at your parents' going down to the car every time they want a tin of peas.)

You do need to back off and spend less time in conversation with your mother. Irrationalities are easier to tolerate if their not taking up so much of your time. Any time you phone her, or you pick up her call, start by saying "I've only got 5 minutes" And after 5 mins, cut in and say "I' sorry I have to go" and just go.

The one thing where you might want to keep an eye open is your father - make sure his welfare isn't being put at risk by your mother. If you think he's not keeping clean (because he can't access toilet or bathroom) or you think his "senior moments" are tipping into dementia, you can write to his GP with your concerns and ask the GP to see him under some pretext. The GP won't be able to discuss it with you but will read the letter.

They have no need to take responsibility for themselves if you are always there to take responsibility for them.

I remember you from your other thread. Despite what your mother believes, you weren't put on this earth to make them happy and become their driver. They can have an account with a local taxi firm if she's too Hyacinth for community transport - that's what other people do when they stop driving. They can afford a few taxis with the insurance saved on the car.

Having a dementia screening check does not give you dementia. There is medication that can help slow the decline but it's not available without the diagnosis. Ignoring it will not make it go away. You could drop a note to their doctor with your concerns but this is not your problem to solve.

Prepare yourself for stormy waters ahead but stick to the broken record. "I've told you I'm not driving, get yourself a taxi account" for the driving and "Well move then" for anything to do with the house. "Oh no, not this again mum, do we have to?" would also work. They have choices and if they are chosing to stay there well that's fine but they then accept all that goes with that choice - dodgy transport, gardening, no downstairs loo. They could have a gardener, they could have a stairlift, they could spend money to make their life easier. If it turns into a shouting match you can leave or hang up, your parents have no more right to bully you than anyone else does.

It may be that they don't know how to move house/engage a gardener/hire a taxi so stick with what they know because it's easier. What you know is safe and the unknown is risky, that's why you are the preferred option being known and safe.

One of the grannies is a perpetual victim, nothing is ever her fault and she's never been wrong in her life. It is very wearing, you have my sympathy. If you are set up as the rescuer then they will forever be the victim, the way out of it is to coach them to solve their own problems. I've had a total failure with this because she makes all the right noises and then rings round the family to find someone else to rescue her.

You could actually use the words "take responsibility for yourselves and stop moaning". What's stopping you doing that?

@Topseyt

Really sounds like they at least need carers coming in and you will probably need to take a big step back in order for them to get the message there.

They may need some sort of assessment of their needs by adult social services too in order to help get things moving and get through to them.

Would warden assisted sheltered accommodation be suitable? Or would your mother refuse to even countenance that idea too?

It's so hard isn't it. My mother is 86 and recently widowed as my Dad died in March. It had taken a few medical emergencies and scares (during which my sister and I did help them as much as we could) but they got carers about a year ago. It has had it's hiccups but has really been invaluable.

After my Dad died and my Mum found herself alone for long periods it didn't take her long to realise that her house was no longer working for her. Even with people coming and going, she would be isolated and lonely a lot there. She isn't able to walk far and can no longer drive due to eyesight and other medical conditions so is totally dependent on other people to get anywhere.

She didn't "get" what it would really be like while my sister and I were virtually living with her during our Dad's final illness (neither of us lives near there). It was a realisation that she had to come to herself and she has. She was very resistant to the idea of moving at first, but after even just a couple of weeks she had started to change her tune and has now put her name down for some local sheltered accommodation where she would have her own self-contained flat. She is now really into the idea of having the warden on hand, and friends and a community in the same building. The decision to probably leave her home of over 50 years though is not a simple one and it had to come from her.

All you can do in your position I think is make suggestions. You have enough on your own plate too. If they resist then you must step back as you have your own family to consider too and will be too thinly spread. Your sanity is important too.

Speak to your parents' GP too. Put them fully in the picture and see what services are available locally to them. Be clear that your own family situation will not allow you to be considered their carer.

It is so hard (and sad) when elderly parents are losing control in their own home. For them and for their families. I think meeting resistance to the changes needed is very common as well as understandable.

My mum wouldn't be open to moving to assisted living at all as she is in full denial. She laughed in my face when I suggested it before. She is also planning to wallpaper 2 rooms at the moment so clearly has no plans to leave . My mum's way of dealing with things is to block it out and when the sh*t hits the fan, wail and tantrum as though she has no idea how it happened .

She wouldnt be open to carers or anyone coming in either (what would the neighbours say? ). I have thought about contacting their gp as I think waiting for the inevitable crisis to happen which usually occurs in situations like this, isn't a good solution.

I am sorry to hear about your dad I am glad your mum agreed to move though xx

Topseyt you sound so sensitive to your mum's situation - it's really best warming to read. I could well be in her situation one day and would be brokenhearted to leave my home but hopefully we, as a family, can all work together realistically when the time comes. I feel for everyone on this thread. My husband and I are deciding on how we can adapt our home so that we can stay here as long as possible.

I don't think it's uncommon for a crisis to force changes that are long overdue.

To those of you who I've not personally replied to, thank you so much for your help and advice . I think I will drop their gp a note, and I will certainly not be jumping to their every request.

Xxx

I speak as someone who has had five years of what's coming your way. Your only solution is to change you.
What Dint said above is something you must remind yourself of over and over again.
This is not your problem unless you want it to be. They have the right to live where and how they like, even if to your eyes their life would be much easier if they lived elsewhere. What they don't have the right to do is demand that you should spend your time, money and effort enabling them in their decisions.
In your shoes, armed with my experience, I'd 'divorce' from them as of this very week and hell mend them. Let them reap what they have sewn. Go spend time with your DCs and husband. They are absolutely your priority. You have spent 50 years trying to help your DM. Accept that she knows best about managing her own life and take a massive step back.

It's a very difficult situation. However, your Mum cannot expect you to be her chauffeur and you have your own family and home to see to. Im sorry to say she sounds incredibly selfish. One thing you could consider is contacting Age UK for advice. Like another poster said keep an eye on your Dad re signs of dementia. I was a carer for someone and I need to warn you, in my experience GP was useless. I will also say, do not volunteer for anything, once you tell a GP or Social Services you can do X. You will be left to it with no help from anyone. Also don't depend on family, they vanish like snow off a dyke. I can only tell you my own experience and sadly it was grim. It concerns me that you have three children to think about. It is going to come to a point that your parents will have to accept the help. Im so sorry you are in this position, it's not easy.

Also, I would like to add too in case I am misunderstood, I do agree thst despite what I think if my parents choose to live there I totally respect their choice, my main problem is them putting everything on to me.

I agree with all of you that I need to put myself and my family first, however when faced with choice of walking away from my parents and taking this crap neither is good.

So sorry. This is a case of the least worst choice. Help is there but you cannot force them to take it. And if you don't drive you aren't driving them around, thats it!!

No real advice just wishing you the best of luck OP, its such a tricky situation to be in but ultimately they are adults, we do have a tendency as a society to start treating our elders like children once they hit a certain age, but this just encourages and reinforces the attitude that you should be doing things for them that they are capable of doing themselves.
One way to cope with this is to act like you dont understand why she cant do it herself/behave like she's joking/dont engage.
For example:
Mum: We need a lift to XX place
You: oh okay, what time have you booked the taxi for?
Mum: laughter or 'dont be ridiculous' 'You need to arrange something'
You: haha very funny mum, you know how to use a phone, grown adults dont need other people to book taxis for them. Oh is that the door - gotta run bye!
Or
Figure out a line like 'you'll need to book a taxi' and resist the temptation to answer any other questions or make any excuses, just keep repeating 'you'll need to book a taxi' until she gets bored. Repeat it even if it doesnt make sense. Stay calm and dont shout,and let there be silence if you need to, you dont need to fill the gap. If you do get a chance read back through some of the threads on this elderly parents forum there as a lot of people have similar experiences, you're not alone and there's some great advice in those threads.
Hope you manage to get on okay with GP!

I'm full in your corner, so don't take this the wrong way. Be honest with yourself and look back over the last ten years and consider at any point have your parents made plans to future proof their life?

It's likely your answer will be 'no'
If they were asked the same question, would their answer be: 'But it's all right, it won't happen to us and anyway, we've got 'happywriter' who will do what we need'
If that's the view they held when they were fit and able, now as they become increasingly frail, that view will be unshakeable in their minds. They won't treat you any better and suddenly find extra respect.
My point to you is that for your own well being, you need to find ways of how you deal with them differently.

How about writing them a letter so they can digest things rather than reacting immediately.

You can tell them your worries and what you can do to help them but also make it clear what you won't be doing if they aren't happy to accept change in their lifestyle.

I had to do similar with my Dad - he now has a full time carer - so result!!

I remember your previous thread - well done for reducing the calls. Caring for older people only gets harder and with young children you run the risk of being run ragged.
Hold the line about not driving for a start.
There are other options and services available but they might have to hit the point where they simply cannot do something before they accept that.
Good luck!

When they put it on you, then put it back on them. Explain that they can choose to live how they want but they have to accept the consequences of that. Speak to them like adults, if they start becoming unreasonable tell them in a clear manner that if they continue to be unreasonable that you will have to end the call or leave and that you will be happy to speak to them once they can be rational.

My MIL refused carers and made a nuisance of herself to us, the neighbours, the GP and the emergency services. The GP did nothing.
She should really be in a home, and would have a far better life in one, so we got Social Services involved out of sheer frustration.
They have eventually forced carers on her, and will reassess from time to time.
You have my sympathies. It’s a shit time and it’s only going to get worse for you, particularly when one of them dies.

You can tell them what you will or won't do until you're blue in the face (either by letter, phone call or face to face).
They won't/don't believe you. You are their back up plan (future full time carer).

Telling alone doesn't work. Your actions have to back up what you're saying. So don't do things. Let them fail. Until they see the consequences of their actions (or inaction) there is no impetus to change their behaviour.

Echoing what everyone says. It's up to you to control your responses. They are in charge of their own lives. The more you say no the easier it will become. The choices are become their servants and have a rubbish life yourself, which will impact your children, or stand up to them and face their disapproval.

Firstly, yes there is no way they should be relying on you.

However, I guess getting old, infirm , unable to do what you are used to is a terrible prospect. Having to give up what you know and love. Seeing each other gradually decline. Knowing there is only one out come, that one of you will soon leave the other.

I see my mam for example hating the fact that she has to pay good money to get things done and then it's not done the way she used to do things, the way she liked. Her terror at the thought she will have to stop driving one day and how that will close her world down.

Just wondering if this might help you think about how you approach the problems

Thanks to each and every one of you who replied, I appreciate them all

midgedude, I appreciate what you are saying, and I do empathise with their situation and try to see it from their side. However, there is a history of my mum throwing tantrums and huffs when she doesnt get her own way, and they are practically putting themselves in danger with thier denial (e.g. him falling and saying he doesn't know what happened, taking constant wrong turnings in car and saying road signs were taken away, etc). Even if I focus on their point of view, it doesnt take away they aren't being sensible, or denying potential dementia which needs to be addressed asap if there is anything there like that.