Elderly parents taking no responsbility for themselves

[happywriter]

I have posted before on this forum. I am at the end of my tether with my parents denial in old age and things are gettiing slowly worse. I don't know where to turn anymore and it is affecting my own mental health dealing with it

They are in their early 80s and living in the house they've been in for the last 40 years which is a semi detached and no downstairs loo and nowhere near any amenities. There is also a neighbour dispute spanning the past 30 years so I can't for the life of me work out why they stay there. To cut a long story short, it isn't accessible for my dad who has terrible mobility and toilet issues. They keep shopping in the car boot as they can't carry shopping bags up the path!

My dad still drives and to be fair, his physical driving does seem ok, however it is obvious his driving days are coming to an end soon given his age and other abilities. When he stops driving he will be housebound. This is another story for another time but their answer to that is for me to step in and drive them around even though I don't drive and have 3 young kids, 2 with ASD. I will certainly help them out when I can but they have isolated themselves.

My mum is a narcissist and doesn't like being told no, I get guilt tripped and digged at constantly about this. She threw a total wobbler when I told her I am not driving. My parents won't pay for taxis and for appointments they don't want nhs transport because 'the neighbours will see it' . Very much Hyacinth Bouquet style, what must people think. Any time the car is in garage for MOT or breaks down she goes crazy and can hardly cope. It is embarrassing. I dread the day he stops driving. My dad is so passive and is controlled by my mum, he is like a little boy and does everything she says.

My mum whines 24/7 about 'how hard life is', she can't handle getting workmen, gardeners (when they aren't mowing the lawn themselves with one at each end of mower handle ), moans constantly about the noise from the neighbours. I often come off the phone to her wanting to burst into tears. I actually can't carry on like this for much longer.

They are in the habit of blaming outside factors for everything. It is the council's fault that the bus stops are too far apart, if they get lost they claim road signs have been moved (when they've not), lockdown is to blame for my dad's senior moments, etc. These are only a few examples, it is unbeleivable the things they come out with. Anything except face up to things.

Recently my dad has also been having many what my mum would describe as 'senior moments'. However I have suspicions there is more to it, however my mum will never admit it so that's another struggle I potentially have on my hands .

I am so stressed and frustrated with them, and just want to tell them to take repsonsibility for themselves and stop moaning. I actually think they sometimes enjoy the drama.

If you think they may have dementia ring their GP and ask that they have a memory check next time they are seen.
They won’t discuss them with you, but you can express your concerns,

@Izitso

Topseyt you sound so sensitive to your mum's situation - it's really best warming to read. I could well be in her situation one day and would be brokenhearted to leave my home but hopefully we, as a family, can all work together realistically when the time comes. I feel for everyone on this thread. My husband and I are deciding on how we can adapt our home so that we can stay here as long as possible.

Thank you. We are being as supportive and sensitive as we can be. My mother lives in the Midlands and I live a three hour drive away in Essex. My sister also doesn't live that near to her, although closer than I do.

My mother's house is a bungalow that my parents bought over 50 years ago so no stairs, which is what allowed my parents to continue living there for so long. They did totally interdepend on each other though, both with an ever growing list of mobility and medical issues.

I have to admit that having to leave my mother on her own just days after my Dad's funeral did feel brutal. I felt awful but I had been away from my own home and family for about 6 weeks by then apart from when DH drove them all up for the funeral. It had to happen though. No way round it.

My sister and I have visited regularly since and I am going again this weekend for a couple of days (going by train this time instead of all that driving, and looking forward to that).

I am fortunate in that I have not met the resistance from my own mother that OP is getting from hers. My parents actively planned for the possibility of needing care of some type, at least financially. They had a horror of ever ending up depending on their adult children, though recent events have shown that there is only so much you can plan for.

My mother is now looking quite eagerly towards sheltered accommodation in the centre of her local town. It can't come soon enough. She is also considering buying herself a mobility scooter so that once there she will be able to get herself out to the supermarket, or out for a coffee elsewhere.

OP, maybe your mother is one of those who really will have to experience just how difficult it will be. It feels brutal. It feels dreadful. You aren't deserting them though. You are finding ways for them and you to cope, and to preserve your sanity.

Involve their GP. Perhaps speak to adult social services, if the GP doesn't do it for you. Make outside agencies aware that there is a problem, and potentially a crisis brewing. Make it clear that you are not able to available as a carer though, otherwise they will do nothing.

@happywriter

Thanks to each and every one of you who replied, I appreciate them all

midgedude, I appreciate what you are saying, and I do empathise with their situation and try to see it from their side. However, there is a history of my mum throwing tantrums and huffs when she doesnt get her own way, and they are practically putting themselves in danger with thier denial (e.g. him falling and saying he doesn't know what happened, taking constant wrong turnings in car and saying road signs were taken away, etc). Even if I focus on their point of view, it doesnt take away they aren't being sensible, or denying potential dementia which needs to be addressed asap if there is anything there like that.

I think this is why you need to involve their GP and others.

If your father does have dementia then that needs to be taken account of and he may need to be prevented from driving before an accident happens.
"
If your mother is so much in denial about their problems then she is probably unable or unwilling to even try and provide any of the care he needs at home, in addition to her own needs.

As I say, I was fortunate in that we met very little of this resistance from my parents. Sometimes something would be suggested (such as blue badges for the car, or getting carers in) and it would initially be met with reluctance ("oh we don't want that!!") but in the end they were fairly sensible. Once my mother needed a wheelchair to be pushed around town they purchased one and sorted the blue badges. Then they wondered why they had been so against it and said that they should have done it months ago.

The need for carers came after the first lockdown last year. Both had spent it being admitted to hospital for various non-covid related emergencies and despite the only help my sister and I could provide it became clear that the one could never cope if the other became ill. It also became clear that all of us needed the reassurance that should something go wrong when they were on their own that they would be found before too long and we would know about it. So they appointed the carers, who still visit my mother three times each day.

I'm really sorry OP this is horrid to have to deal with I think in these situations you have to remember you have no control over how other people (your parents, in this case) behave.

All you can control is how you behave.

So your mum will huff and puff and wail and tantrum. It doesn't matter what you do, that's what will happen.

So let her. But don't let it make you do things you don't want to. Because the next issue that comes up, she'll huff and puff and wail and tantrum.

All you 'gain' by capitulation is that you end up doing things you don't want to. And you still have to put up with the histrionics.

So just hang up. Refuse to engage. They can't force you into a car and make you drive, they can't force you to stay on the phone and listen to the latest drama. Protect your own mental health, because they won't. It's not 'selfish', it's necessary.

As a non-driving daughter of a widowed and lovely but emotionally frail father, I totally encourage you to hold your ground on the driving. They do not have the right to bully you into being a chauffeur. Running costs of a car can totally cover the costs of taxis where needed, and if they don't live centrally enough, that's for them to fix.
Holding boundaries and being free with the help I was able to give from a distance and pretty ruthless about what I wasn't able to give (i.e. moving home, learning to drive) has made all the difference in the world, 14 years after my father was widowed. I really believe that boundaries save lives, and families. Good luck x

@WanderleyWagon

As a non-driving daughter of a widowed and lovely but emotionally frail father, I totally encourage you to hold your ground on the driving. They do not have the right to bully you into being a chauffeur. Running costs of a car can totally cover the costs of taxis where needed, and if they don't live centrally enough, that's for them to fix. Holding boundaries and being free with the help I was able to give from a distance and pretty ruthless about what I wasn't able to give (i.e. moving home, learning to drive) has made all the difference in the world, 14 years after my father was widowed. I really believe that boundaries save lives, and families. Good luck x

I do agree here. This weekend I am going to visit my mother on the train, having had to drive it regularly since February (was very necessary because of my Dad being so I'll) and I am looking forward to it much more.

I do drive, but don't particularly enjoy it. I usually went by train to visit my parents. I'll drive it again the next time it is really required (like when she moves house etc.) but would for now rather be able to relax a bit more while still visiting every 3 or 4 weeks.

take a big step back

Some excellent advice here. I will take some of it myself.

Sadly, in my experience, it has taken a crisis to change things. A bump into another car stopped the driving after my DF refused to stop. A fall on the stairs resulted in a stairflift. Rats in the house resulted in a cleaner. I referred them to Social Care who did a full assessment reasonably quickly. This resulted in grab bars and a seat for the shower etc. They point blank refused the carers sent to help them though! At that point Social Care told me that I needed to step back as I'd offered and organised lots of support. I threw a tantrum myself tbh, that was liberating, I said Ibwas struggling at work as my MH and sleep were affected. They were shocked and sympathetic at first before reverting to norm.
I now sceen calls and keep as low contact as possible.

My mum is the same and it drives me mad! Refuses to listen to reason. Refuses to allow workmen in. Dismisses everything as “oh, it will be alright” when it frequently isn’t... she’s driven me to a breakdown this year.

OP, can you drive? Or did you not learn? Not suggesting you drive them around, but I just wondered. Also, do they have the money for taxis? Older people can be ridiculously tight. My PIL for instance would rather freeze to death than put the hearing on, despite being quite well off.

It sounds like the easiest solution would be for the neighbours to get together and stage an intervention (only half joking! 😳) It baffles me when elderly people worry that other people will think they 'look old'. If they're in their 80s they will most likely look their age and nobody would bat an eyelid at carers/gardeners/NHS transport turning up. If your mum realizes the neighbours already think she's in need of help (not to mention bonkers for the shopping in the car thing) there would be no facade left for her to keep up.

Obviously you can't get the neighbours involved - I'm just making the point about her pride being the sticking point. It's so hard, OP, you have all my sympathy. Stick to your guns and fight the guilt trips!

Your parents need support, could you get in touch with their GP and explain the difficulties they are facing, hopefully he/she can signpost the fastest service to get Adult Social Care to assess them. Sounds like there is a lot going on. Would internet shopping help? Food to be brought to their door. You have enough on your plate to be honest, caring for your children. Good luck.

You can get a commode for use downstairs and they can have their shopping delivered. But I agree with PP about boundaries (although this is coming from someone who also has a narcissistic mother and has trouble setting boundaries, I know its easier said than done)

Sorry, just catching up on reading replies, thanks to every one of you .

They have made me feel better as I questioned myself as I always end up doing , and every time I hear of another situation which gives me cause for concern it all comes to the surface.

To address a few comments, someone asked if I have ever driven. I did learn to drive at 18 (I am now 41) and passed my test but hated it, I stopped driving at 19 and apart from trying again 10 years ago I haven't driven since. 10 years ago my dad gave me his old car (which I now suspect was an early stunt to get me driving for their old age although I can't prove that).

As for online shopping, that would be my immediate suggestion however believe it or not, she has found an argument against that too . Apparently she likes to see what she is getting and doesn't trust online shopping, as 'what if they dont have it,'. She is literally impossible and looks for a problem in every solution.

Regarding worrying about what the neighbours think. That goes much deeper than what I have outlined in my post. She is totally obsessed with this family they've fallen out with. She has paranoia that they watch what they are doing so you can just imagine what she would be like with carers coming in and nhs ambulances, etc. She even asks my dad to not use his walking stick walking up the path!!! My mum clearly thinks the world revolves around her.

As a pp rightfully pointed out, they can't hide being in their 80s and taking shopping in from the car. It is ridiculous to worry about what the neighbours think when it is already obvious they are older and struggling. The neighbours made my life hell growing up, there were verbal and physical attacks, etc yet I am still hearing about them to this day .

They are quite well off and won't spend a penny, hence the resistence to taking taxis. They have said they would pay for a car and running of it, so it isn't money related and just a case of wanting chauffeured around. It is worth adding too that she has 2 sisters who get chauffeured around by their daughter and sons (unmarried and no kids I might add). So that plays a part in her behaviour too, she has to have what her sisters have.

So wearing and stressful dealing with her.

Don't try to troubleshoot these issues. They are not yours to solve

So wearing and stressful dealing with her
Because she is deliberately playing you, manipulating you to get what she wants with no thought for how it affects you, if it was me I would step back and stop engaging

OP, MereDint and others have articulated very well that while you can't force your parents to take responsibility for their own difficulties, you are also not responsible for them.

The hard part is, of course, being able to feel and persuade yourself that you are not responsible for them. They are being very unreasonable and unfair to you. This is not uncommon, it is partly what you have correctly identified as denial and knee-jerk reaction but also they are taking advantage of the way in which parents are able to manipulate their children.

If parents were't able to pull a string, they wouldn't be able to influence their own children, when actually children, in the benign ways necessary for their welfare. But elderly people, when they either were already, or have become, self-centred discover that this is an excellent mechanism for forcing their children to take responsibility instead by means of guilt and a sense of obligation which adult children often can't even identify the roots of.

It is difficult to step away, very difficult and this is what the string-jerk mechanism relies on: it's easier in the shorter term to give in, you will feel temporarily relieved when you do. But in the longer term this will become a trap for you - if your parents live another decade, how will you be at the end of that, having accommodated their increasing demands? How will your mental health and family's welfare be?

You absolutely do not need to drive, they need a taxi account. You do not need to shop for them, they need to accept online deliveries. You do not need to take on the burden of worrying and finding solutions for endless new problems they refuse to face up to as they decline.

I could give you a very long list of the things my DM was not 'open to' and now she is open to all of them because she has had to be - because I refused to fill the gap. If it helps, I told myself I would be ethical and kind, I would do the admin and advocacy my DM needs, I would phone and visit on terms I can cope with (she lives a long way away) and I would not abandon her and will live with it if she doesn't like what I'm doing. That's my framework, and it is a much better alternative to her eating up my life.

The most important thing, as PP have said, is for you to decide how you are going to engage or not engage with this, not react to the string being pulled. Good luck.

The amount of taxi trips they'll make will probably mean it's cheaper than running a car. Explain to them the cost of running a car - remembering to factor in an extra £2000 a year towards buying the replacement. They're from a generation that didn't use taxis - I can't remember the first time I used a taxi, I think it was probably not until I changed jobs in my 30s and needed to take taxis that work paid for. So they're probably thinking that taxis are more expensive than they are, compared with running a car.

Still can't forget my aunt in her late 70s with cancer taking 2 buses each way to see my uncle in a psychiatric hospital, and all the family of her generation thinking it fairly normal and me screeching 'What about a TAXI'

Tbh I think to my mother's generation it is like getting into a stranger's car. But given that my mum hitchhiker round Europe as a kid, I can't see the problem.

I can remember going by bus (2 buses) over an hour each way to see my father in hospital. But a taxi would have been £20 each way - I just couldn’t countenance that. Then on day I went with DS by train, and he got an Uber from the station. FFS! It’s only a mile’s walk! I went wrong with the upbringing there.

I totally sympathise with your predicament and having boundaries as others have said is the key. My 87 year old father refused to move from an upstairs flat with almost vertical stairs to a lovely downstairs one five years ago because he thought he’d be more likely mugged living downstairs, (he only deals in cash and insists all his pension is taken out each week by my brother and shopping and bills are paid in cash. ) Now he suffers with mobility issues he’s still in the upstairs flat and has had a few falls. We’ve bought him a frame and a remote control chair to help him but won’t use them. I do a 60 mile trip twice a week with a two year old and bite my tongue when he moans about his various “illnesses” or the fact life’s so unfair that he has to pay bills. It’s really hard. If I get too worked up I’ll text another sibling to do the shopping at the weekend so I have a bit of a breather from him. I really used to spit fire over him trying to pay me for shopping in loose change or telling me how wonderful another sibling is for visiting him (1st time in 5 months!) but I don’t actually care now. If he falls and badly hurts himself that’s his responsibility because I can’t keep getting stressed and worried about him when he won’t take any responsibility for himself.

Must add that GP got involved after his last fall and we have carers coming in twice a day Mon to Fri. He didn’t want that but we put our foot down. It has been a godsend tbh. Stay firm and don’t allow yourself to be guilt tripped anymore.

Just like PIL who despite pots of money, would rather haul themselves precariously up and down stairs instead of having a downstairs loo put in years ago. Then MIL fell badly and it was straight on the phone to DH an hour away! They too trawled up and down the neighbours for a lift rather than pay for a taxi. Embarrassing.
IMO we live our lives as a consequence of the choices we make. Your parents will have to find out the hard way what their lack of preparation and willing to spend any money means when you step back. Which you absolutely must do before things get worse.
Their wants don't trump yours.
My DM ended up on antidepressants and BP medication running round after my GM. Think long term and start to make different choices.

You have my sympathies, it sounds very difficult . I can only echo what others have said about boundaries, saying no, only taking phone calls at certain times and limiting the duration (and don't forget you also don't have to totally engage, I admit to sometimes putting my elderlies on mute/speakerphone while getting on with jobs around the house and letting them stream-of-conscious at me, I'll chime in with the odd 'oh really?' or 'how awful' while not really listening at all, but if anything they seem happier with this than when I'm actually paying attention since then I'm often nagging or harrying them into taking some actual action rather than vaguely sympathising ).

Sadly like others have said, I think it will probably take a crisis or several to shake them into any action on moving home or accepting help - of course this isn't remotely a wise or sensible course of action, in fact it's stupid and also quite selfish and hurtful to others, but all you can do is repeat to yourself that it's their choice and responsibility, not yours. YOU. CANNOT. MAKE. THEM. CHANGE. THEIR. CHOICES. ARE. THEIR. RESPONSIBILITY. NOT YOURS. (sorry for shouting but I wish someone had shouted that at me before I wasted literally months of my life and an awful lot of emotion trying to 'save' my recalcitrant relatives from themselves). The 'what will the neighbours think' thing is totally illogical - as PPs have said surely they'll judge storing tins in the car or letting the house/garden fall into disrepair way more than the appearance of 'help' or services, but you'll tie yourself in knots/drive yourself nuts trying to make their totally bonkers ideas make sense so don't try is the best I can offer!

I totally recognize what a PP said about relatives trying to manipulate/guilt trip you into being their 'rescuer' and when you refuse working their way down a tree of other relatives/friends/inappropriate use of emergency services (yes I have had this!) trying to get 'rescued' by someone else when they could very easily sort it out themselves by booking a taxi/online shopping/gardener/carer (delete as appropriate), all of which is not very nice to experience, makes me for one feel very guilt-ridden (heaven knows what they say to these people about their totally uncaring stoney-hearted DC/other relatives who refuse to lift a finger to help them ) but is totally not your fault.

I do wish I could understand why they do it, it seems so miserable as a way of life and so easily fixed, but there you go. I can only conclude it's either an addiction to the 'drama' and adrenaline rush in an otherwise dull existence of having repeated crises and family arguments/fallings out, or possibly it's a regression to a comforting childlike state where whatever problems you have can be taken to a someone else to solve and if you don't like the solution it's acceptable to just wail and tantrum until soothed and cossetted back into good temper - that actually feels quite attractive to me sometimes too but sadly not really an option since I have no-one prepared to do the soothing and cosseting part . Seriously, look after yourself OP, you'll be no help to them (or your DH/DC) whatsoever if you let them drive you into a breakdown so it's positively your responsibility to get a break from them, relax, recuperate, that's an order

Fluffy you have a better temperament than me. I couldn't drive 60 miles twice a week I just couldn't. It's too much. Especially with a 2 year old and the fact that you have other siblings that help your dad. I try and limit everything to once a week and we have a 30 mile round trip. Even at that I really resent being the person that's supposed to fix everything and take mum to every appointment she has. Lots and lots of appts. I listen to how she doesn't like Asda she prefers Aldi. Asda delivers so there we go! Mum wants life to be the way it used to be but she can't do it herself, she doesnt seem to get that bit. What I do is unless it's totally unavoidable it's once a week and if an appt comes up that is down as a visit. That said she can phone numerous times a day but I also as someone else mentioned put it on speakerphone/voicemail and deal with it when I want to not necessarily straightaway.

I would do a bit of research, so no I can't drive you mum but I've got the number here for community transport if you'd like it. No I can't drive you mum but X taxi company allows you to set up an account so you won't need to worry about having the right money each time, would you like the number

And repeat....