How to draw lines in the sand re: help and support

[SmaugMum]

I’ll try to keep this as brief as possible. I’m a totally lone parent to two children, one of whom has a physical disability and significant emotional issues. In the last nine months I’ve become the default carer to my elderly parents, both of whom are physically frail with severely restricted mobility, and with the added complication that my mum is in very obvious cognitive decline (appointment with a Memory Clinic doctor in a fortnight to determine more).

Anyway, like many of you here, I’m run ragged trying to maintain two homes, keep two households going, doing all the transporting to the multitude of doctor and hospital appointments, and I’m starting to feel resentful.

I have a sibling who lives solo 200 miles away (who is in denial about mum’s cognitive decline) and maintains the prodigal child status by phoning my parents twice a day. But that’s pretty much it. I’ve been asking (well, in several heated discussions that have turned the air blue) for said sibling to organise a supermarket delivery service for my parents. Weeks later, and I’m still doing the shopping. My parents are old school and have never had a new-fangled shopping delivery; they prefer me to pick up the orange-stickered reduced items they’ve been used to buying all their adult lives.

They are effectively living in one bedsit-style room with a kettle, toaster and microwave. My suggestion of installing a stair lift to enable them to access their downstairs kitchen and maintain some semblance of independence was met with ridicule, like I’d suggested blowing all their savings on a trip to Vegas.

It will probably not surprise anyone here to learn that between my sibling and I, only one of us has a vagina!

I’m so stretched, my children are fed up because all of our weekends are consumed by helping their grandparents. I’d like to know how other people in a similar situation have managed to draw effective lines in the sand in terms of what they are prepared to do and not do?

For example, my sibling doesn’t have a car (no need in Zone 1 London) so is visiting my parents by train next week; my request that taxis are booked to transport my mum and dad to their various hospital appointments has been met with radio silence. And every discussion I try to start about new ways of doing things ie shopping home delivery is shut down with the implication that I’m being deliberately awkward.

In the words of my GP ‘your children will not thank you for it’

I found the worse bit is getting them to accept external help. The situation with my Mother and golden balls brother nearly broke me, don’t be me. First thing I would do is be ill for a good few months and if anyone asks you to do something say sorry you aren’t able, Doctor’s orders.

A period of absence will help every one focus their thinking and start making the much needed mental shifts that are needed.

Maybe your brother can hire a car for the week? Doesn't fix any of the longterm issues but might make him more productive when he is here.

@SmaugMum

Time-lapse of several hours, honestly, I’m not one of those super-annoying OPs who posts, never to return (been a bit busy having my second Pfizer vaccination, among the usual routine of keeping two households going).

Thanks so much to everyone who has taken the time to respond - with buckets full of humour and empathy, plus challenging attitudes - it’s all really helped. Ironically, the vaccination needle was about to pierce the skin on my upper left arm when my phone rang, it was my dad asking if ‘I happened to be passing a shop’ if I could pick up a fresh loaf, bearing in mind that I’d already picked up a few requested groceries this morning, after the school run.

Anyway, emboldened by the advice here, I texted Golden Balls Brother (no relation to David Beckham) to advise that I would be taking a full week off caring for my parents when he returns (to eat the fatted calf) on Sunday. I sent a text devoid of any emotion, advising that I would not be available to (and submitted a list of EVERYTHING I do in a usual week). The response? ‘Please keep messages civil’ ie don’t rock the boat as I know the tipping point will have been my refusal to drive my parents the 25-mile round trip for their various hospital appointments and my suggestion that instead they use taxis. There will, no doubt, be much mutual in-sucking of breath and a multitude of comments about my extravagance and profligacy, as, somehow, my car is the only vehicle in the world that does not ever cost any money to its passengers. Anyway, sod them, I’m having a week off and I’m actually going to do something for me.

Crikey! Sorry but you sound a bit deranged quite frankly. The answer here is that your db has boundaries but you dont. So you do stuff for your dp that you dont really want to and lash out. Your db is right -hes trying to keep things civil. If your dp dont want food deliveries and taxis you cant force them but also they cant have you dancing to their tune -step away.

Do you think so Templetreebalm? I don’t think she sounds a bit deranged and read it as end of tether, funny how we all see different things.

Parents like yours enrage me, op.
How dare they expect you to put your life - and those of your children - on hold whilst you cater to their every whim?
I would never, ever, feel the same about a parent or sibling who treated me like this.
Your parents have plenty of money - they can afford help.
I second a pp...acquire a back injury which means you can't drive for 6-8 weeks
Amazingly your parents will suddenly be fine with online food deliveries, especially as the golden boy will be arranging it :)
I'll say to you what I say to others on this situation...
If you dropped dead tomorrow your parents would manage just fine...because they'd have to.

The calling her brother names and nastiness towards him?
Its clear her dp dont want the things she is proposing and she is still blaming him rather than take a deep breath and tell her dp thats no she cant stop at the shop every 5 mins or constantly ferry them to appts.
She cant control her db actions ( hes respecting his parents wishes) but is trying to instead of looking at her own.

Sadly a lot of parents like this with a family dynamic like this would happily accept the suggestions op is making (which I think we can all agree are reasonable) if they came from the right child
Golden child and scapegoat syndrome.
But, yes, the brother does seem to have boundaries in place. Which is very easy to do when another family member is doing all the heavy lifting.

it is selfish to say this is what I want to do with my money, and my children can run themselves ragged to ensure this happens. It is unacceptable to make decisions if you require other people to help you in those decisions and they don't have any choice in the matter. But I'm not convinced that the elderly person is always truly aware of the burden they are putting on other people.

@Templetreebalm

The calling her brother names and nastiness towards him? Its clear her dp dont want the things she is proposing and she is still blaming him rather than take a deep breath and tell her dp thats no she cant stop at the shop every 5 mins or constantly ferry them to appts. She cant control her db actions ( hes respecting his parents wishes) but is trying to instead of looking at her own.

I’ve been assuming she hasn’t actually called him golden balls to his face and sometimes a sibling can make a difficult situation even worse. My sibling was so difficult he was threatened with the Court of Protection by Social Services and I know a few others who have had very difficult times with theirs from my time on an Elderly Parents support thread.

You are absolutely right, she can’t control his actions and needs to look at her own which is what she is now doing having taken on board what people are saying. MN is great for letting off steam and she’s clearly doing that. I don’t think it’s helpful to tell a poster who is struggling that she sounds a bit deranged.

I agree with the poster upthread who said to ignore your db. It will add another layer of angst to fall out with him and he does phone them twice a day. It’s not as much as you do, obviously, but he is not on the spot so therefore is unable to any of the practical work.

The one thing is for sure that things will get worse. You have to institute an online shop (I agree this your db can do) whether they like it or not. I ordered Wiltshire Farm Foods for the pil - and fil cancelled straightaway, saying he wanted to drive to M&S (he’d had his licence taken away). It’s a struggle as older people are - understandably - terrified of losing their independence, and become extremely selfish in order in their minds to retain it.

A stannah stair rail is also a must. You will just have to go ahead and do it. Ditto looking at cleaners and indeed carers. I know full well that suggesting/persuading/pleading is a complete waste of time. They will have one aim: you doing everything.

@Templetreebalm
Respecting their wishes?? is that to drive their DD to exhaustion?
My DP cares for his GP, also works full time, whilst his recently retired DF (fit and healthy) does nothing. GP has plenty savings but will not spend a penny, moans about every item of food (same things as he is rigid with choices) blames DP for everything. Many elderly are beyond selfish and oblivious to the impact caring has on the carer.
OP contact adult SS and tell them they need help and step back, they could sell the big house and move somewhere accessible and suited to their needs; what use is a 7 bed house if they live in one room?

Irma how did you move on from your PIL cancelling your online orders? What happened next? Did they accept it eventually?

Respecting their wishes?? is that to drive their DD to exhaustion?
No?
I dont think she should be doing all this and exhausting herself.
Her DF presumanly has capacity to make his own decisions regarding food provision and transport?
You cannot just decide for another adult against their wishes.
Hence all the calls to the db and nastiness are not appropriate, its not what the DF wants.
What is appropriate is for the OP to tell her parents that she can not drive them to hospital and do their shopping-shes exhausted.
The DF can then decide what he wishes to do.

I ended up in a similar situation when my grandad and mum both died very suddenly, I became default carer for my nan. With 2 under 4 and another due in August it was exhausting me. I ended up getting a pulmonary embolism and spending time in hospital, then people realised I couldn't juggle so many plates and options to make my life easier started being agreed to, like shopping delivery.

Obviously a PE is quite drastic to get out of shopping duty but please look after yourself, its so easy to get burnt out. I thi k you need to sit down with your brother and have a Frank "I can't continue with how things are, from this date I will no longer do x y and z, so you need to make alternative arrangements, but I can do a b and c"

@Templetreebalm
Make his own decisions? He relies on his DD to buy food and ferry him everywhere!!
Honestly you must be reading another post!
Her DF/DM are incredibly selfish.

[quote HerMammy]@Templetreebalm
Make his own decisions? He relies on his DD to buy food and ferry him everywhere!!
Honestly you must be reading another post!
Her DF/DM are incredibly selfish.[/quote]
I agree that they are selfish!
I just dont agree that the OP should be blaming her brother.

They are playing you OP
I would declare myself to be too ill to help and that would remain the case for several months

My sibling was so difficult he was threatened with the Court of Protection by Social Services
Fools, are you saying they threatened him with some kind of punishment or penalty for not providing care for your parents?

Once your Mum’s cognitive issues gave been diagnosed, get on to Adult Services.

It may be that your parents are entitled to care visits.

Be very clear: you cannot be their Carer for fear of neglecting your own children including a disabled child.

It is hard but parents refusing help is a common thing g, and one by one we all have to draw that line and they gave to accept outside help.

My own Mum was much happier once she got used to the visiting help and came to know and like them.

I agree with the PP who say that elderly parents get more and more self absorbed and other people's lives are not their concern. They want xxx and sometimes done in a certain way and if its not done like that the drama starts.

As one PP said if you dropped dead tomorrow someone else would step in and I have to say owning a 7 bed house isnt on when they can only use one room. What is the state of the house, dated and messy?

There is clearly money here (thank goodness) so that money needs to be spent. Time and time again I see my friends elderly parents using their children to avoid paying for taxi's, and agreeing to hospital appointments without checking that is convienent. My friend's DM had a hospital appointment on a certain day because friend works part time. NHS changed the appointment (and of course elderly parent wasnt going to argue) and then gave the new date as a fait a compli. Burst into tears when friend told her she couldnt take her.

She offered to even fund a taxi herself for parent or arrange GP transport but that wasnt good enough. Elderly parent wants HER to take her.

At least favourite child calls twice a day but I am the sibling managing my parents but I have laid down strict rules and they both follow them. I dont live close by so that helps. I can order this and that, make phone calls to various organisations but its under my terms.

Other siblings live abroad and think by making verbal suggestions about something that I need to do that helps me.... They put the phone down thinking they have done their bit...

@Miasicarisatia

My sibling was so difficult he was threatened with the Court of Protection by Social Services Fools, are you saying they threatened him with some kind of punishment or penalty for not providing care for your parents?

No, he was trying to help but from a distance and hadn’t seen her for over 5 years so didn’t understand what was happening as listening to my Mother who was saying all sorts and not to the people who were actually there , could see the reality of the situation. and were trying to deal with her care because in his arrogance he thought he knew best.

He tried to remove her from the home she was in and that’s when SS threatened him with the COP. It was a complex situation at the time and hinged on whether she had capacity. He also accused me of financially abusing her to get his own way. I absolutely wasn’t and was completely exonerated by SS but it was incredible stressful.

Obviously a very different situation to where the OP is and it was pretty extreme but there were a few of us on at the thread at the time and all of us had issues with siblings.

Thank you for clarifying Fools it sounds very difficult, glad to hear you were exonerated.
The more I read of these kinds of threads the more I think it best to live as far away from as possible and let social services deal with everything.
The alternative seems to be years stress of stress and resentment which leads to a decline in your own mental and physical health, furthermore one's own children having seen this unfold in front of them will surely make sure they are not in the firing line when you start to go gaga!

She cant control her db actions ( hes respecting his parents wishes) but is trying to instead of looking at her own
Ah so because db says "look Smaug Dparents don't want to pay for anything and want you to pay for and take charge of everything, so this is what we need to do, ok, its respecting them...'

Thanks again for the updated messages and advice (well, apart from the one accusing me of being ‘deranged’!)

To clarify, my parents moved to the area in which I live about eight years ago, when my eldest child started school. They have been brilliant grandparents, especially as I am a totally lone parent on a very low income. They’re not horrible people; my mum is literally in a world of her own and while my dad is fully compus mentis (I ought to know how to spell this as I have a Classics degree!), he is in extreme pain, discomfort and anxiety about his sudden (as in dropping off a cliff) decline in his health, that he’s not thinking straight. Both of my parents have always been very resistant to change and their worlds have become very small, especially as they are effectively living 24/7 in one room.

There is a temporary team of reablement NHS carers in place but their brief is to help my mum with her personal care and help her to perform her mobility exercises as prescribed by a physio. Great as this is, it doesn’t get the bed sheets changed, or the dishwasher loaded and unloaded.

My brother is not a horrible person either, he’s simply a very successful (career) man who has never married or had children and so has always been used to being at the centre of his world. He means well, but I’m doing the heavy lifting and the thinking for everyone; the delay in organising a supermarket delivery service is a case in point - I’d just crack on with it but my brother’s way of doing things is to wait a month till he is able to visit in person and then sit down with my dad and run through a shopping list. Even the most hardline posters here wouldn’t see their parents run out of food in the meantime, would they?

Anyway, this has been such an interesting discussion and there has been much empathy, support and fantastic advice, for which I am extremely grateful.

I have always thought us living longer and longer is a ticking time bomb. We pat ourselves on the back that we are doing all of this for the very old but is it a poison chalice? Older people looking after the very old, dementia (the most horrible illness ever!). My DM doesnt have dementia but she gets confused somewhat and worries about absolutely everything. Little things and then the tears start. Makes me feel guility, says she doesnt want to bother me but then just goes on and on about something very small.

Its certainly common that it seems to be just one sibling who does the very most (the others hover in the background giving 'helpful' suggestions).

What I am concerned about though is when people pass on with or without wills. The mess they leave behind because of their (and I am going to call it out - selfishness). Siblings not given equal shares for no clear reason, people coming out the woodwork making trouble especially where there is a reasonable amount of money at stake.

My DF fell a few months ago. Really bad head injury, thought this was it (got the phone call) but the hospital threw everything they could at it and he survived. He does tell me its no life and and plods on but his choice would be to go much sooner.