Do I have to be the one to tell DF he shouldn't drive on the motorway ?

[rookiemere]

So I'm 50 and DM is early 80s and DF is 87.
I went to visit them today - haven't been for a couple of months and is permitted in a caring capacity. They live an hour away.

DF is a rubbish driver, has always been really, always wanting to overtake is kind of jerky driving, just not great. He likes to drive and pre covid always drove the couple of miles down to the supermarket carpark to buy a paper every day. He can do this fine, and has maintained some local driving through the lockdowns.

However pre covid they used to come and stay with us. DM is now saying - privately to me only - that she doesn't want DF driving on the motorway to us, doesn't think it's safe. She can drive, but DF is an awful passenger, prone to shouting at other drivers and getting in a rage and DM doesn't like driving with him as a passenger.

He's now talking about wanting to visit us once they've had their second vaccination and travel around Scotland restrictions are lifted ( I'd really appreciate if we don't get into conversation about what is and isn't allowed because of Covid). DM doesn't want him to drive, but has not said so directly and is pretending it's because of covid. They almost had a bit of an argument in front of me about it.

We'd happily come and pick them up and bring them to ours or do all the visiting, but DF would question why.

I really don't want to tell DF he shouldn't drive, I feel it's up to DM. As I say I'll happily do the ferrying once they're in the position to accept it. I'm an only DC btw - do I have to tell him ?

Oh gosh you've all scared me now. I don't think I'd be keen to go for a refresher driving test - never mind DF .

I genuinely don't think he's at the straying into the other lane of the motorway stage or driving into someone's house. I've not actually been with him at the wheel for a long time - it was bad enough when he was the passenger and refused to give me the address we were going to so I could put it in the sat nav and instead insisted on barking out instructions at the very last minute.

I think I need to have a conversation with DM on how she wants us to handle it. I can probably engineer a reason why we need to go up for the next visit rather than them coming to us.

So very sorry cptartapp . That's terrible.
I second everyone else who says that it is your responsibility to speak to him - and yes to following this up with the DVLA. I'd hate to lose my independence by not driving when I'm older. But I'd hate the thought of killing or hurting someone even more.
Please do it now OP.

@cptartapp sorry for your loss.

Are there trains they can get? They are so empty and safe at the moment and more relaxing. Can you suggest that as a more enjoyable option for them?

Remember once they get rid of a car they will have more money for taxis!!! No more parking stress.

You are minimising this.
Your own mother has said she won't go on the motorway with him as its not safe. Listen to the woman who's clearly too nervous to call her husband out and deal with this. She might be married to him but he's your dad and this needs sorting before he hurts someone. He sounds like he has a bad temper when driving or being a passenger, that alone never bodes well for good decision making on the road.

I think this is a very difficult issue & becoming more common as the generation when car ownership became more widespread are now elderly.

My dad was also not a great driver - in fact he had never had to do a test as he had a motorcycle licence! My sister did eventually get him to agree to let her sell the car, after he had been unable to drive for some time due to illness. He had only driven locally though for some time.

You could try just drip feeding anecdotes & suggestions - eg would it be cheaper to get taxis when needed than pay for insurance, servicing etc.

I know an older woman who decided she would stop driving at a particular age, regardless, so that she would not be tempted to keep driving until something happened. That’s certainly something I will think about.

Whether someone is safe to drive does NOT depend on how far they are driving. Unexpected things can happen on familiar routes. If you think he is unsafe to drive, he is unsafe whether he is pottering to the local shops or driving to the other end of the country. We don't issue 'only local' licenses !

@Newgirls it's a nice suggestion that they get the train, but they'd need to get to the train station and refuse to get taxis. There's also a megabus that does the route directly that DM used to take if she came on her own.

I did have slightly harsh words for him as he talked about wanting to visit relatives in a place where you need to do a long drive to the ferry. I have said numerous times that I would drive them to the ferry and relatives could meet them at the other end. He said that it was difficult hiring a car at his age so I said it would likely be cheaper and safer just to get taxis than try to hire a car.

It's actually quite an easy motorway journey so it's no huge deal for us to do the round trip each way - if that's been agreed with DM & DF.
I do think DM needs to express her concern about him driving on the motorway- I'm not prepared to take the blame for it by myself, particularly as I'm not entirely sure what his driving is like and am going by what DM - who is a somewhat anxious person - is telling me.

You could write to his GP. saying you realise they don't have to take your views into account, however you and your mother have real concerns with your dads driving style and even his aggressive behaviour as a passenger, that to avoid serious consequences for him and other road users you would like them to refer him to the DVLA for a reassessment. You don't believe he will listen to his wife (as she doesn't want to be the one telling him but is now making excuses not to be in the car with him especially on motorways) or to you his only child. He's 87, and the responsible thing to do is to refer him for a driving test. If he passes it fine but you don't think he will. I don't know whether the doctor will listen but it would be worth a try. I dont know what the GP would say to your father if he found out it was them that referred him. However I'm sure they could deal with it. It could be anyone writing to his GP. Any neighbour could have done it. I phoned the police about an elderly woman going round a large roundabout the wrong way. It was like the parting of the waves with other drivers trying to get out of her way as she drove at 2 rows of cars trying to join the roundabout. Then she sat at a set of traffic lights in the righthand lane and turned left. No idea what the police did though as she was out driving the next day. She should have known her driving was bad and obviously no one had that discussion with her or she was ignoring them. Look at the elderly man that mounted a pavement in Edinburgh and killed a toddler. Yes anyone can have an accident but if you are worried do something about it. Write a letter to his GP and take it from there.

Thanks @doodleZ1 I'll definitely discuss it properly with DM next time I speak to her and we need to do something.

I think your Mum should say it op. How can they have got married, raised a family and known each other for over 50 years and yet your Mum cant say "I don't think you are a safe driver and I won't travel in the car with you anymore"? It's bizarre.

Equally, if you have concerns about his driving's then you should also be able to say "I don't want you driving to ours. We will pick you up and drop you back." So what if he gets cross?

We have to cope all our lives with people telling us things we don't like and this is no different.

If you are "not entirely sure what his driving is like" you need to find out. Get in the car with him and get him to drive to the local shops. I did this every few months with my DF ( until we went nc). Also did it with FIL hence my stance ( and his diagnosis) on his driving.
Sorry, as harsh as it seems, this is your responsibility.
If / when he kills or injures someone how will you feel?

I think me being in the car with him is a good idea.

I will insist for the next visit that we go up and have a go in the car with him. But I do feel responsibility sits with both DM and I, not just me. I may have painted DF as outburst prone, but he's certainly not ranting and raving in every day life and it's not like she's normally scared to point anything out.

If it's your DM who thinks he's unsafe it's her responsibility to say something. She's his wife! She is much more responsible for him than you.

Until you see his driving for yourself, what are you going to say to him? 'Mum says she thinks you should stop driving, but didn't much fancy telling you herself'?

Thanks @FeistySheep that's how I felt initially, but this thread has convinced me I need to speak to DM and agree a strategy for discussing with him.

I feel for you OP. Parental relationships come in different forms - some families are able to have a discussion, others aren’t. A really big issue with caring for elderly people is that they are not children. You can try and influence but you can’t tell them what to do. And you ARE NOT responsible for your father’s behaviour in either a legal or moral sense as you have no authority to make him do anything. I’m not saying you shouldn’t try but don’t feel guilty if he doesn’t listen to you either.