Is Dad Expecting Too Much?

[Charliesunnysky10]

We live a 30 min journey from my 78 year old widowed dad. My mum passed away 20 years ago, and my dad told me he has amassed a decent sum of money which he put away to pass on. He regularly shows me the figures and where it's saved so, as he says, if he dies I can access it.

He need his prostate coring and for over a year has had a catheter while he waits for the NHS op. I have urged him to dip into his blinking billions and go privately, but he refuses to spend any. So he regularly has medical emergencies and I have to travel late at night sometimes to help out. His age and the catheter limiting his lifestyle has made him anxious in general so myself or my hubby need to go and see him almost every day. We have 2 teenage children, so we can go at short notice, but we were looking for houses near him and found one but we'd need a bigger mortgage and my hubby is nervous about taking on a big debt when he could lose his job if the hospitality industry doesn't recover enough.

He would like my dad's blessing and some reassurance that my dad would help financially if he was made redundant. My dad refuses, saying we need to batten down the hatches, that this money is to pass on to future generations. He says we shouldn't move because property prices may plummet and interest rates skyrocket and we'll be repossessed if DH loses his job and have to go into rented. So we are left with an almost daily hour long round trip to do jobs, bring supplies, etc. I'm really brassed off that this would be so much easier if we'd moved to be 5 mins away, but my hubby is scared to make the move when dad says no.

But it's going to get worse, not better and my dad, though I love him dearly is becoming more and more stubborn and demanding. Both my hubby and I work full time and the travel is eating into our lives. We don't mind the time with him at all - quite the reverse. He's our family and we love spending time with him, but it's the unnecessary daily travel I resent. What do you think?

Tricky one OP - i suppose something to point out here is that you briefly mention giving up your job if he needs it later on, but also your husbands job stability (regardless of the larger mortgage or not) is this something you'd even be able to reasonably take on?
He cant have it all ways, he cant refuse to move, and refuse to spend money on carers, and want to pass all the money to you, and desperately want you to have all the money and not the gov but also refuse to spend any of it on you now when he'll likely need more care, and expect you to uproot your family, and expect you to drive there at the snap of his fingers. Your family and relationship with DH and sanity is more likely to suffer under the strain of you going back and forth... I get that he's your dad and he's elderly and on his own but im a bit sad for you that he's seemingly okay with having you go to all this trouble for the next 5, 10, 15 years and him not making any compromises to make your life even the tiniest bit easier. Im sure he'll come round, being elderly isnt a pass for being selfish. (Sorry if that sounds harsh, just seen a lot of friends ground down under the carer role!)

I am slightly uncomfortable with your absolute determination to move closer to your father (and your younger DC's school, and presumably to a better area) based on your DF's support. If you can get the mortgage without his help, why do you really need him to commit to something that he is clearly not comfortable with?

I agree that it makes sense, I agree that it would be a good use of his money (and that he should consider private surgery). But if he doesn't want to help you but a more expensive house then that is his choice and I would accept it and either fund my own move or make clear that the travel is too much and will have to be reduced.

being elderly isnt a pass for being selfish. Being alone all day with your problems makes them loom larger, I don't think it's usually deliberate lack of care for others (the fact he wants to save his money for inheritance rather than, as he'll see it, fritter it away on himself, shows that). But the effect is the same.

So you've discussed getting money to move directly and he has said no. He also won't pay for an Op that he can well afford and would improve his quality of life significantly.

It's up to you, but unless you pull back you could be doing the hour long daily trip for many more years. If it were me I'd investigate what paid help can be brought in, he has the agency to refuse it, but equally you shouldn't need to be doing this every day. Think of it as an insurance policy - you need back up in case any of your family is ill or there us something else that happens that means you can't come.

Why would he part with his money if he already has you on call and appearing daily to his demands regardless of you living further away?

Unless you start showing him you can't visit on demand due to your location he's not going to change his mind.

He's being massively unreasonable, and dare I say selfish. But all the while you prop him up nothing will change.
My DM ended up on antidepressants and BP medication running round after my GM. It tainted the last few years of their relationship for sure.
We save all our lives to ensure we are safe and well cared for in old age and if your DF chooses not to spend on services that would help he should live with the consequences.
I can't believe any good parent would actually let their DC with jobs, families and lives of their own actually do this! Doesn't it make you think differently of him. It would me.
If you want your life to pan out differently you have to make different choices. His wants do not trump yours, indeed, I would say they come after those of your DH and DC.

A question to ask yourself is would you expect your DCs to do as much for you and DH in old age as you're doing for your DF, and if not why not ?

It’s good you’ve had a direct conversation. Now you need to decide how to proceed. As you say yourself, something has to change. It won’t necessarily improve when he has the op, so you need to think practically and longer term.

You dad will not change his behaviour or life - he’s been clear about that. So you need to change yours. What is most important to you?

Is it caring for your dad easily yourself, and being close by?

Or is it not feeling resentful over being the only carer at a distance which is causing you stress and inconvenience?

Either you can decide to move anyway (“Dad, we’ve decided to go for it, we can afford the extra mortgage and we want to be closer to you a d X’s school”) or you decide to stay put but with some boundaries and extra help for your dad (“Dad, we decided to take your advice not to move but I am worried the distance and my work means I can’t be around as much as you want or need and I don’t want to be worried about you. I’m going to look into home helps and cleaners.”)

You must pull back. He’s spending your and your dh’s lives in time and energy to hoard his cash, it’s very selfish. I wouldn’t ask re housing again (& I would absolutely not risk the family home by moving and taking on a mortgage I wasn’t sure I could afford). But you must visit less and save some energy for your family. You can tell him there are in home support/ care options, I can look up prices for you dad. And if he says I can’t sleep at night if I have to spend my fortune you say sharply well what if you needed it to eat dad? Would you starve to death? Because you need care support to live in your house, so either start looking at care homes or get in some support.

You sound a lovely caring person and you have done a brilliant job supporting your Dad.

I am assuming you have no other siblings or family than can help out too?

He sounds quite stubborn & a little controlling if I am honest. I agree with previous posters, he won’t change, but may possibly become even more demanding in coming years, so be aware.

You really need to set some boundaries, have a you think about what is reasonable and more importantly doable for you. And then explain, how things are going to be going forward & the reasons why.

I get that you love your Dad dearly, but if you don’t get a handle on this now, resentment will build and that wouldn’t be nice for either of you.

Good luck, I know from my own experience that conversations like this are never easy, but completely necessary under the circumstances and make sure you stick to the new arrangements and don’t let things slip back

I do have sympathy for you . My MIL is 97 and has always worried about money behind her , although she has only about 30k.
I was diagnosed with breast cancer 18 months ago and before that was always her carer.
We pointed out that I could no longer give her the support she needed and that DH’s priority had to be me.
I think the one thing that got through to her was me saying

“All your life you have been careful with money for a rainy day - Look out of the window—- it’s pissing down ! “ “ Make your life more comfortable”

It doesn’t stop the panic attacks but I can generally talk her round those knowing that someone will be there in the morning.
Now she pays for a daily visit from carers 3 days a week and we take her for shopping and coffee ( pre Covid) 2 days a week .
Hairdresser and taxi on a Friday. We have also picked up the empty day as she can’t have her normal Sunday visit from a friend.

Expecting you to drive so far more than once every week or two is unreasonable, you have a family and house to take care of.
I'd talk on the next visit and let him know you can only come on x day each week, or every other, you decide. You have to be firm. Tell him he is being unreasonable to expect you to spend you life on the road just because he won't get his surgery sooner by paying, or move closer to you to a nice retirement flat where you can get there easier or more often.
Sometimes elderly relative who are sitting at home all day forget how busy life is with kids and houses and work.

My Mum was adamant she didn’t want any outside carers but at the point that we had no option she very quickly got used to it and welcomed their morning visits to help with showering and dressing. They really didn’t stay ‘strangers’ for long.

But it took a bit of a push.

He is spending your time. Your valuable family and recuperation from work time.

There is a lot of pussy footing around this issue. This is going to sound nasty, but you are allowing him to treat you as a slave. You are doing daily, time consuming work and travel for free and he is expecting it. The fact that he won’t be on speaker whilst you dish up speaks volumes. That’s pretty arrogant and selfish.

Suggest to him that HE is the one that needs to move if he wants your ongoing help. I am unsure why you are so willing to leave your home and feel a bit sorry for your poor DH being talked into leaving his home in order to move closer to someone who is enslaving his wife.

I have done a shit tonne of caring. I do loads for my FIL and he is really grateful, not demanding. When my poor MIL was alive and she needed my help, she would always say: please could you help me with x, whenever it suits YOU. Not demand to be helped immediately, unless it was urgent. If I was chatting to her, she would check that my kids were alright and I didn’t need to be helping them with their homework, feeding them or whatever. I am sorry but your dad sounds very selfish and also obsessed with money.

You husband has the patience of a saint. There's zero way I'd entertain moving closer and taking on a more expensive mortgage to do it. There's a thread on here, too, from an OP whose husband was promised money from his grandfather, well, guess what? The man left it to someone else.

You need to pull back here. Big time.

I know I'm going to sound weak and defensive of my Dad, but i think being isolated for the past year is a major cause for this paranoia over protecting his money, not having strangers in, needing moral support, company, advice. And not being able to see how this impacts on me and the family. I'm an only child, and so is he. So there isn't anyone else and he's prone to over thinking by nature, so aging and covid isolation will not have helped. I really want to move back and the rest of my fam want to as well. It's not a hardship uprooting - we've been in this house 22 years and would welcome a change. I feel like it will give us all a lift for the challenging years ahead. I might just be framing this to suit the fact that I know he does better when he sees me often. He takes more care of himself and the house when he gets frequent visits. When I go on holiday for 10 days in the summer, you can tell he's been lonely and feeling down when we Zoom him. I think I understand so much more from reading your replies. I have more perspective now. And I think a big part of this is that I felt like nobody understood the issue, whereas I know you all do. I will see how he is when I go tonight. Thank you again

You don't sound weak or defensive. And I find that trying to understand helps me to realise it's not a matter of "I don't care about you, I only care about me". It makes it easier to cope with the apparent self-centredness, even if it doesn't change my "no" to the desired-for "yes".

@MereDintofPandiculation

You don't sound weak or defensive. And I find that trying to understand helps me to realise it's not a matter of "I don't care about you, I only care about me". It makes it easier to cope with the apparent self-centredness, even if it doesn't change my "no" to the desired-for "yes".

That's the thing. Ultimately, while it's only company he needs, at least I'll be visiting with a smile and kind thoughts instead of feeling resentful about the travel. He may even recover some of his confidence when he can get out more. He offered to pay DD's coach fees and sent us the money every month for 6 months then stopped and I've not the heart ask about it. We didn't ask him to pay them originally, he offered so it's not like we can't cover it as we've not spent as much over the past year due to lockdown, but I'm puzzled as to why he's saving so intensively, to the point he's pulling the plug on all outgoing payments apart from food and utilities - He used to pop a bit in our ISA's but stopped that because he said he's worried about his investments not performing well. I just don't get it. But it's his money to do as he sees fit.

Can I just reiterate taking on a mortgage you aren’t sure you can afford should be absolutely not an option. You can guarantee nothing from your dads estate, and risk losing your house.
It’s not weak or defensive to say you understand what he’s thinking and that he hasn’t thought of you, but it is unfair on your family, your husband and child, if you can’t express to your dad the impact it’s having on you and cut back to what you can manage. Of course he might not realise on his own how hard this is on you and your family, but that’s why it’s your responsibility to tell him and to draw those lines. Your dad is not your only responsibility, but he is the only one with lots of other choices- he can afford to help you move, to move closer himself, to pay for substantial care support. Your daughter can do nothing about whether you are there or not. She can’t pay for some extra mum from someone else.

That's such a good post @timeisnotaline .
As a parent of a teen myself, they may not appear to need you as much as a younger DC, but mine does need me at usually random moments when he wants to discuss or mull over things. It sounds like a lot of your emotional energy is being used by your DF OP, it's not your responsibility to make him happy or acquiesce to all his asks.

He used to pop a bit in our ISA's but stopped that because he said he's worried about his investments not performing well. It's scary when you're retired because you know it's unlikely that anyone will ever employ you again, so there's no way of increasing your income - your savings are all you have.

It's easy to say "it's a nice problem to have - I wish I had savings to worry about" but younger people have a possibility that they might actually get that job. Elderly people don't.

He's wanting to pass on his millions but he hasn't thought through that by not spending it now he's increasing the chance of early admission to a care home - and that really will blow a hole in his savings, at the rate of £100,000 or more every 2 years.

@NewspaperTaxis

This wasn’t the case with both my DF and my MIL. Neither had POAs, but we were consulted at every stage of their medical care.

You sound very kind
You are spending your time & your money helping
Can you apply for carers allowance ?

Can you change to every other day visit ?

I see that you do go on holiday, which is good
So he is capable of time on his own !

If he played for a cleaner once a week, it would give him someone else to chat to & you a break

Has anyone actually costed the private operation ?
Because him delaying the op is affecting him & your family. Surely, this is what rainy day money is for ?

Thank you all.
Dad says there is no way he'll go private as it sets a precedent. He went on to say that his mother (My nana, who passed away10 years ago) hinted she wanted him to pay for her hip op some years before. But he didnt want to (I've no idea why, and I do wonder if he is mistaken and it's more his own guilt that he never offered). Anyway, he said if he gets a private op, we'll all expect it. I nearly fell off my chair. I told him we have private med insurance with our jobs and we'd never expect him to pay. But I wad actually thinking 'goodness, if there's ever a reason to spend, it's your health'.

Anyway, I do actually think Meredinto is spot on about his money concerns being linked to the fact he cant earn more, that what he has now is all and everything.

Its not logical to us, but it makes sense to him, and I can't change that.

So, I'm asking him to come here more - cooking meals here for him to visit us. As mere says, my daughter needs support and my presence - I shouldn't be so consumed by my Dad's needs, I neglect hers.

I have said to Dad that if he needs me to drop in 3 or 4 times a day, or be on call, I'm not going to be having to get a taxi if I've had a glass of wine one evening when he calls me out - at that stage I need to be walking distance if he wants that level of care, that I'm prepared to give. He didn't disagree. So DH and I said we'll keep saving and maybe it will be 5 or more years before he gets to that stage and we won't need as big a place or the kids will be with us and earning. In any case our world will look quite different in a few years time and we may well be able to afford to move closer. Dad may appreciate what 30 mins travel time looks like if he's doing it himself twice a week to come over to my house, and it does take the pressure off me massively, not doing all the running.

More than that, I feel like I've made a bit of progress. We don't have all the answers but I don't feel as hemmed in, or lost in all of this, thanks to your advice and suggestions.

It's good you've made progress

I still feel you're promising your dad something he will expect (3-4 visits a day) and of you moving closer to him, and putting yourselves under pressure. (What if you want to downsize to a cheaper property to give your children deposit on their first house in 5 years or to afford uni maintenance?) It ought be a 'we will see conversation' to your Dad.

I trust dad will be paying his own taxi to and from your house for those meals at yours , because it's little help if you or DH have to also go collect him and return him (2 hours driving in an evening) . Or at least he gets a taxi home!!

And + on top of that you also have a Tuesday and Friday pop in to see him at his house (whatever time or days suits you) arrangement.

Because seeing dad 2-4 times a week is plenty and you'd be daft to increase your driving.

You say he won't go private- for health operation- ok- but have you spoken to him about buying in home help /PA to reduce amount he relies on you for odd jobs/ company?
That's not setting a precedent, that's just 'not expecting you to do everything and stretch yourself so thin'.

When you speak about what he needs, you said company and some organising/ diy jobs, like a housekeeper/ home help really. He's lonely. You really can roll up your visits into once or twice a week with him at his house snd arrange transport to and from your house for a meal another couple times a week.

If he needs more, he can pay for home help/PA (private carer organised direct rather than through agency) if you helped him find a PA or home help, it'd still be 'my daughter arranged this, for me' feeling for him.