Mother wanting to start going out “ it’s allowed now “

[Nearlyoldenoughtowearpurple]

Am losing the plot here and feel like a bully.
My mother is 84 and has a brain tumour, not on treatment at the moment but obviously a prime candidate for DNR if she got covid. It also makes her not quite mentally “ normal” .
She is desperate to go out somewhere , preferably a garden centre because she watches the news and sees that you can.
I have explained many times that the cafe won’t be open, that you can’t linger and that it won’t be what she is expecting, but I don’t think she believes me .
She can only go if one of the family take her ( living as one family unit not breaking rules ) which I’m just saying no to at the moment but she won’t stop pestering and I’m feeling really unkind.
Am tempted to take her just so she can see but seems a stupid risk to expose her to the virus plus she is terrible for touching things, especially if you ask her not to, so that’s a whole other issue with covid.
Fully aware not a solvable problem probably but need to vent !

Frankly, at 84, lonely and in not great health, I'd just take her. Or maybe go to a park or somewhere else outdoors that she can enjoy? Being lonely and isolated in lockdown with nothing to look forward to is hardly a life. Yes, there's a small risk, but at the end of the day, she's 84 - it's up to her to decide if she's happy to go out and about.

Could you take a video on your phone to show her that the garden centre isn't as it was?

For goodness' sake, take her out. She's 84 and she has a brain tumour. The way things are going, she might never get out of the house again. I would be going insane in her position. There is no light at the end of the tunnel at the moment, so it's not like you can say 'hang on for a couple of weeks when things will be better'

The garden centres around here are being extremely well organised and 'policed' in regard to social distancing, and especially if she spends almost all the time in the outside area, she'll be at virtually no risk

Do you have a car? Could you take her on a drive somewhere, perhaps go for a picnic in a park?

God I would have taken her out plenty over the past few weeks. Take her out. She is allowed out.

I'd definitely want to making the most of my time left if I could at that age, so I say take her out too.

It is a solveable problem. Take her out. Even if she touches the pots in the outside nursery, the chances of picking up the virus are infinitesimal. There are studies now saying that the risk of transmission by touch has been way over-stated, and anyway, you can just stick hand gel on her every time she does it.

Being 84 doesn't mean that every vestige of control over one's life has to be removed. Put yourself in her shoes and have a bit of empathy.

God, in 20 years time I'll be that age, and if my kids remove all decision making from me like this, I'll be distraught.

Take her out to drive past the garden centre to see what the set up is and then discuss it further and decide from there. She will then feel like she is being listened to and her views respected.

Thanks all
She has no interest in going anywhere other than a retail premises, she never does
She has an amazing garden that could be a park practically and has ventured out, with encouragement, twice in the last month .
Outside her front door is a footpath which is well used and she could walk every day , but she doesn't want to .
Saraclara , she has had the brain tumour for years and it isn't an imminent death threat but Covid would be which is why I'm hesitant.
Maybe I will just take her

We're in a very similar position with my in laws at the moment, also early 80's and not in the best of health - age and health condition puts FIL into high risk bracket but not shielding bracket.

They're desperate to get out, particularly to a garden centre. They're not the type to like to sit around, reading watching TV etc so have been waiting for the day to escape. I'm of the opinion that as long as they're very careful, social distance, avoid crowded areas etc then actually I think it would do them good. FIL in particular is very stressed with being cooped up at home, and likes the garden to be perfect. I don't think that stress is good for him.

I'm in the minority though, his sons ( DH and his brother) and adamant he shouldn't be going out. It's causing a lot of friction between them. Personally I feel they should be supported to do it, in as safe a way as possible. The sad thing is neither MIL or FIL could still be here by the time this is all over and I hate the idea of their final years being cooped up, not enjoying life

Do you really think she's better off being cooped up? Just be sensibkecand take her out for a walk in the park. The cooler weather will be perfect for it as there will be less people about.

I'd definitely take her out and I'd be looking to do that as regularly as possible.

I don't know where you live and what other risks you're taking into account but there does need to be a balance for anyone who can do so. I understand why you're nervous though.

She isn't cooped up and will not go for a walk
Saraclara, if you were not mentally capable in 20 yrs, your children might have to make decisions for you and believe me they would much rather not !

I would take her too. I know it's not what you want to hear and of course there is a slight risk, but it is very low.

Take her where she wants to go. It sounds like she’s got capacity to assess the risk and at 84 with a brain tumour she’s probably faced a lot. I’d be more worried about prolonged loneliness than coronavirus personally.

Another one saying take her out. My mother is older than that and I was ready to offer to take her out, but she pre-empted my decision by going on her own.

We're in a similar position with my grandma, who is 91. The problem is i'm not sure she completely understands what things are like right now. She's made several comments that indicate she doesn't have a firm grasp on the situation, although she doesn't have dementia. "I wish the war was over" was one comment. So I'm npt convinced she can make an informed decision.

Another problem is that my DM doesn't live with her, so it would be mixing households and therefore against the rules. We're not sure what to do

Can't wait until I'm 84 & I'll tell my kids absolutely nothing about how I spend my time - so I can spend my time doing WTF I like. It will be like a new teenage phase, sneaking around & smiling sweetly with little white lies.

My nana is 89 and has been doing her own shopping and going for a walk every day since this all started. I can't imagine her response if I told her she wasn't 'allowed'

Take her out. It's her decision, and she has the right to make a decision that you consider unwise. If she does catch covid and it's symptomatic she would very probably live - 90% of over 80s with covid live, ¾ stay out of hospital. Based on her age her chances of dying in the coming year without covid are already at least 5%. Your comment about the brain tumour making her a prime candidate for DNR is a bit odd - the decision whether to attempt a resuscitation will be based on her chances of it doing any good, not on a condition that is not affecting her life. Take her out and let her have some fun for goodness' sake, while she still can.

his sons ( DH and his brother) and adamant he shouldn't be going out. It's causing a lot of friction between them.

Exactly who has decided that this couple no longer have control over their own lives? They're not four year olds.

I'm finding it appalling that so many adults now consider that they should be deciding exactly what their parents can and can't do.

Believe me, when it's your turn you won't be finding that reasonable of your offspring at all.

@Nearlyoldenoughtowearpurple

She isn't cooped up and will not go for a walk Saraclara, if you were not mentally capable in 20 yrs, your children might have to make decisions for you and believe me they would much rather not !

I've had to make decisions for my MIL with alzheimers and my mum, who is paralysed and in an extra care facility. And in every case I've made the decision based on their needs and their mental health as well as their physical health. Sometimes that involves a very small amount of risk, but removing all risk would mean that they had no quality of life at all.

Decisions on my mum's freedom are now made by a care team, and I'm not local. But my brother and I insist that my mum's freedom of choice is respected, and she now has a manager who is empathetic and respects that. My MIL can no longer get in a car as her brain can't now send the signals to her body for her to have the motor skills needed. But if she did I'd be taking her out with no qualms at all, as would her daughter, my SIL.

Why not look for one of the more outdoor garden centres/ nurseries? There are the big warehouse style ones which are more gift shop than anything else, whereas a more nursery style one might be more outdoors although ideally with a closed coffee shop so you can sympathise that it is still shut. If you go fairly early and socially distance then the chance of her catching anything must be fairly minimal.

Ok , I'm going to do it
But you lot better back me up when there is a thread on here tomorrow about some irresponsible person accompanying an elderly person around a garden centre, touching everything!