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Elderly parents

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Original poster

FIL care

32 replies

RainbowFlowers · 17/02/2020 11:09

My FIL is 83 he had my husband late he is 29, I'm 33. We have a 3 year old and one on the way.

FIL is in hospital delusional for parts of every day but also lucid parts of each day too. He struggles on his feet and its debatable whether he will be able to live at his home anymore.

My husband wonders if we can sell his house and build an extension/annex on our house and pay for care for him. This fills me with dread. FIL has always been highly emotionally and socially dependent on my husband. This is due to my husbands mum dieing when he was 4 years old (FILs wife), FIl was heart broken and never remarried or got over it really. He is an anxious person who always thinks the works of everything.

FIL is the most negative person I have ever met and typical of that generation a bit sleezey and a bit racist. (I'm mixed race). My husband is great with him but also gets very stressed very quickly. I honestly don't know how he would cope with him living with us. I don't know how I would cope with FIL living with us or how I would cope with husbands stress.

My husband has said that we would only go through with this with my agreement but I can't imagine putting my foot down to something like this. I want to be supportive.

Any advice or similar experiences are appreciated.

OP posts:

Sandwiched18 · 17/02/2020 14:27

To be honest, having you, your DH and two small children and FIL living together sounds like a recipe for disaster. Major considerations would be if your kids are going to be negatively affected and what happens if FIL decides he doesn't like his carers, and that you don't particularly seem to like each other even from the off.

I'm in the same boat as you with having young kids and difficult older people and it's bad enough without having them in the same house!

FIL being in hospital is maybe a good time to work out a compromise option like him moving into sheltered accommodation. But I'd be really worried if you went down the extension route that it would be impossible to get him to leave if it wasn't working out.

FLOrenze · 17/02/2020 14:41

The care of an elderly person is relentless. I know so many carers who have been totally broken by the stress. You owe it to your own health and the welfare of your children, not to do this. Having spent 10 years taking care of MiL, Mother and Stepfather, I have lots of experience in how soul destroying it is. I would give you exactly the same advice even if you were single and childless.

MereDintofPandiculation · 17/02/2020 14:44

In practical terms, the build an annex plan isn't going to work. Hospital will want him out a lot quicker than that. So you would need to find an interim solution for him while the annex was being built (you're talking months rather than weeks). If he's delusional in hospital, then every move is going to make him more confused and frightened - remember the delusions are his way of finding an "explanation" for things that are scary and confusing.

Carers at home will only work for so long. So it's arguable as to whetehr the best solution is for him to return to his own home with carers and in due course go into residential care or whether it's better to go straight into residential care. When my very independent father had a sudden decline followed by a spell in hospital, he managed 2.5 months before needing to go into a nursing home.

The most difficult thing about caring for him at home was the unpredictability. You couldn't even settle down to an evening watching TV because you were always on edge waiting for the call to sort out some problem, whether it was something trivial or a fall with lots of blood and a 999 call.

typical of that generation a bit sleezey and a bit racist. That's rather a sweeping generalisation. I have many friends in their 70s and 80s and I wouldn't call any of them sleazy or racist.

PragmaticWench · 17/02/2020 14:51

If your FIL ever needed residential care (and that is extremely likely with dementia) then there are legal implications if he has invested the money from his home into your property. This could result in the council coming after you for the money and putting a charge on your house. Look into this carefully and also 'deprivation of assets'.

On an emotional level, are you 100% certain you can cope with this? It's a huge burden (I've been there) and kinder to say no before it starts than further down the road.

Practically, do you or your DH have the ability to care for someone who is not always lucid? You will need to provide 24/7 cover between the two of you, even with carers coming in to provide physical care.

SoCrimeaRiver · 17/02/2020 14:58

OP, you know that your FIL is only going to get worse. He will never improve from how he is now. If you're having doubts based on his current condition, imagine 5 years from now. Protect your children and your DH from himself and say no to this. Your FIL needs a care package where is is safe, so no toys as trip hazards, bed guards in place etc. This is not your family home.

ineedaholidaynow · 17/02/2020 15:01

There will be a huge time delay before house sold and annex built, what is the plan before that is done?

Who will look after FIL when he needs care? If you are getting carers he may as well stay in his own home or go into a home as I assume his health will deteriorate

EuroMillionsWinner · 17/02/2020 15:13

I would say no to this without an iota of guilt. Dementia is a progressive disease and there is every likelihood it will become unmanageable in a home setting. It's unfeasible and will literally destroy your family life.

BeyondMyWits · 17/02/2020 15:19

just. say. no

SoCrimeaRiver · 17/02/2020 15:32

Just read back in your OP that you're pregnant. You'll find someone to take care of your older DC when you go into labour, but if he's moved in with you, who will look after FIL? He won't be able to stay independent, he won't know where you've gone. Just a starter for your DH to consider. He has the best of intentions, especially if he's had a very close relationship with his dad, but he needs to think through the outcomes of this. You wouldn't want carers and mdwives around the house within days of giving birth.

oldfashionedtastingtea · 17/02/2020 16:50

Please don't. It sounds like it could ruin your marriage.

Also, dementia and a bit sleezy? He could end up assaulting you. Dementia can make people aggressive.

Original poster

RainbowFlowers · 17/02/2020 17:15

Hmm a lot to think about. Thanks so much for all your replies!

So the idea with the extension would be to build not only a bedroom but also kitchen and bathroom for him. The money from the sale of his house would cover the extension and have a chunk left over to spend on his day to day care.

He's about to go in a a temp nursing home funded for 4 weeks and then if he still cant go home he would have to pay. I know sale of house, planning permission and building would at a gues take a year or 2.

OP posts:

ineedaholidaynow · 17/02/2020 17:26

So what would happen in those 2 years? Not being cruel he is 83 and not in good health, he might not be around in 2 years or if he is he may be too ill to be able to live in an annex. If he has to be in a nursing home for those 2 years he might have spent most of his money or they may have to put a charge on his home until it is sold, which might not leave you enough money for the extension. Or he might not want to move out of the nursing home by then, especially if his memory is failing it would be better for him to stay in a place that he has got used to.

On a slightly separate note do you have a POA in place?

Original poster

RainbowFlowers · 17/02/2020 17:47

@ineedaholidaynow yes I share all of the concerns you've mentioned. Tbh my husband is way more positive about his Dad recovering than I am.

FIL has not been diagnosed with dementia or alzheimers they've just been calling it delirium. I'm not convinced the delirium will ever go but doctors have said that it can happen after an infection which is what got him in hospital in the first place.

Yes my husband is POA.

OP posts:

SnugStars · 17/02/2020 17:58

Don’t do it, my Mum nearly had a breakdown in similar circumstances looking after an elderly relative. This was someone she loved dearly and was very close to, had similar interests. They also weren’t sleezy or a bit racist. So in your situation I would say you’d be mad to even consider it. It’s not what’s best for any of you, but especially for your children.

ineedaholidaynow · 17/02/2020 17:59

My DF got delirium whilst in hospital, we were told his mental capacity would improve once he left hospital. My DM and I had our doubts as he was getting to the point where he didn’t know where he was and who we were. Unfortunately he also had terminal cancer and he died before he could leave the hospital.

One of our neighbours, who is probably in his 70s, went into hospital last year with an infection. He too had delirium whilst there. He has never fully recovered. It is very hard for his wife and he is a very different man now. She has to remind him sometimes who she is and that his mother is no longer alive. He didn’t have these mental issues before the infection.

I know it is very hard for your DH to accept that his DF may never fully recover, but it is quite probable.

Original poster

RainbowFlowers · 17/02/2020 19:07

I guess the reason why I am struggling to voice all of my concerns to my husband is because I don't want to come across like I am dismissing it too quickly.

He's only mentioned this idea once which was just the other day and I did say most of my concerns but was very aware I didn't want to come seem like I was saying oh just shove him in a nursing home despite his wants/needs.

OP posts:

EuroMillionsWinner · 17/02/2020 19:10

You'll be expected to do some of the care, that's why he's so positive about it.

ineedaholidaynow · 17/02/2020 19:32

It’s a huge thing to get over that your parent may not be able go back to their home ever again.

DF ended up in hospital after having a fall. We never thought at the time that meant he would never go home. He hadn’t even hurt himself that badly in the fall, just a few bruises. But his delirium and cancer just took over and it became obvious my DM would never be able to cope with him at home.

DH’s gran was determined never to go in a home and was going to cope at home with a mixture of carers and family popping in. But as time went on it became apparent that she couldn’t live by herself. The option was either a bed and a commode in her lounge or go into a home. MIL had to fight but got her into a lovely nursing home. DH’s gran loved it and wished she had gone there sooner. It was so much easier there with everything set up for people with limited mobility and she had company whenever she wanted it.

Maybe wait to see how FIL gets on with his 4 week respite time in the nursing home and then see what would be best. May be your DH will be able to think a bit clearer then.

Selfsettling3 · 17/02/2020 19:36

There is no way you will manage to look after a 3 year old, a newborn and your FIL.

My mother who is disabled had a fall and was very (DNR, a few nights they didn’t think she would make it) ill, I had a 2 week old and a 3 year old who was understandably confused and upset by the new baby - there is no way in that situation you or your husband could take on the care of a parent. It was tricky enough visiting and keeping an eye on my Dad.

PartTimeEverything · 17/02/2020 19:43

I have been in a similar position to you and know how you feel and how difficult it is. I felt like I was being selfish - and there certainly was an element of self preservation to my thought processes. But I also knew that the caring responsibilities would fall to me and I wouldn’t be able to cope.

Your husband must be very upset. It’s even harder when you’re young, and none of your friends have gone through it. But I think your husband is under the impression that his dad is going to carry on forever. I’m afraid that he’s not. The best thing to do is to face up to the new situation as quickly as possible, to minimise disruption to your fil

My advice would be to sell his house to pay for an assisted living flat/ care home (depending on need) that is very near to you and easy to visit.

We are several years down the line and visit 3 x per week. I wish we had had the foresight to encourage pil to move closer to us!

Caring for your fil is going to be a big part of your life from now on. His care needs will increase, and if it takes 2 years to move into an annexe then his needs may well have changed considerably in that time. Best to get him settled in now to somewhere where he can live for the rest of his life.

PartTimeEverything · 17/02/2020 19:44

Also yy to the newborn baby thing! You can’t reliably care for a dependent adult and a newborn baby at once. One of them is not going to be getting the care they need.

Original poster

RainbowFlowers · 17/02/2020 20:32

My husband is not expecting me to be his Dads carer. Building an extension is considerably cheaper than his house so we would be using the leftover for his care.

OP posts:

Selfsettling3 · 17/02/2020 20:37

Your DH suggestion will result in carers coming in 3 times a day max to look after FIL. What will he do in between? Stare at the walls? FIL would get more mental stimulation in a home.

EuroMillionsWinner · 17/02/2020 21:11

Believe me, the money won't last very long. And plenty of times carers don't show up. What is your husband's plan B for this?

SoCrimeaRiver · 18/02/2020 12:12

OP, you mentioned the extension having its own kitchen. Look at the council tax implications for this - I think it counts as a seperate, 2nd home, on your land if it has certain features - its own kitchen is one of them.

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