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Elderly parents
Original poster

Man sent by social services to give 86 year old a shower?

31 replies

CarolinaPink · 04/02/2020 19:31

Hi all,

I'm new to this forum - have only recently found it.

My aunt (86) is currently moving from the end of the 6 weeks' 'free' care, following a shoulder replacement, to long-term care provided by Social Services. (Why Social Services rather than a better local agency is another story.)

Today they sent a man to give her personal care. During the six weeks period that didn't happen. At 86 I'm not surprised that my aunt didn't want to take her clothes off and have a shower.

Am I being unreasonable in this? I'd be grateful to know what your experiences are.

Many thanks.

OP posts:
Ohnoherewego62 · 04/02/2020 19:32

What was her care plan?

What actually happened?

lilmishap · 04/02/2020 19:38

This is a current hot potato, Yes she should have the right to not be seen by a man BUT technically they cannot discriminate regarding sex (or the new term gender) and if there were no Female carers available the alternative would be no shower.

BlueBirdGreenFence · 04/02/2020 19:40

If it's moved services and she's suddenly been offered a shower I'd say it's probably down to a difference in the care plan that was written and probably the longer term one has been allocated more time that allows for a shower. The fact that it's a man is probably just an unfortunate coincidence.

PatellarTendonitis · 04/02/2020 19:42

This will happen more and more as caring is so poorly paid and more and more people who are unsuited to the profession are forced into it by Universal Credit and yes, anyone self-id'ing as female you can't discriminate against.

Frequency · 04/02/2020 19:47

Your Aunt has the right to request female carers only and the care agency must listen and send only females. She cannot request only male carers. The same applies to men who often prefer female carers. They have the right to ask for a male carer and their wishes must be respected where possible (male carers are few and far between) but they don't have the right to request only female carers. A service user always has the right to refuse any aspect of their care for any reason.

A phone call to the care agency should sort this out. There are plenty of female carers. They'll shuffle the rotas around and your aunt will only have female carers attend her personal care calls. Also, SS are arranging the care, not providing it. They will be using a care agency. You do have the right to ask them to use a different care agency but you might have to pay a top up if the care agency of your choice is more expensive.

PityParty4one · 04/02/2020 19:52

No you are not being unreasonable to understand your aunts upset but unless it was in the care plan they will not know to make adjustments.

The support staff was just a staff member doing his job. If your aunt wants female only then it needs to be said.

Original poster
CarolinaPink · 04/02/2020 20:10

Thanks, all. That's helpful.

Aunt has been having a morning visit for 6 weeks, during which she's had a daily shower. The carers provided during that period are not the same people as the ones sent on the long-term care (who were all female, and they were very good). We know that. We know also that SS will be using an agency for the long-term care, but we're literally in the period of transition (I think the 6 weeks may have ended just two days ago), and we were told they'd probably continue with those who have been attending until they arranged the new carers. It sounds as though they've done that faster than they said they'd be able to do it.

What happened this morning is that instead of the morning visit (normally some time between 8am and 9am) the carer didn't come until 11am, and was a bloke. My aunt was in alone. She didn't want to make a fuss (many people of her age are the same) and so just said something about not needing a shower today.

She mentioned it to me this evening when she rang, and I eventually managed to speak to my sister (who is there now, staying the night) and we both agreed that with the time being wrong it may just have been a mistake. We're going to see whether it happens again, and if it does then we'll speak to them. (That's the decision my aunt and sister have made.)

We know that we can go to a private agency locally which would be more expensive. In fact that's what we'd decided to do, because they were recommended to us by one of the SS carers, but for complicated reasons it didn't happen. It still might, though, and FWIW I feel it should. My aunt can currently afford to pay the difference.

Thanks again for the help.

OP posts:
Original poster
CarolinaPink · 04/02/2020 20:11

P.s. I forgot to say that we've never been shown a care plan - I don't know whether one exists. If necessary we'll ask to see it.

OP posts:
Happygirl79 · 04/02/2020 20:14

I think its very insensitive of the care people to send a male to shower an 86 year old woman
She's from a completely different generation and this should be taken in to account
I don't think any female over 60 would want a male carer to help her in her personal care

MrsJoshNavidi · 04/02/2020 20:17

Interesting though - would we say the same if a female (woman) carer was sent to administer personal care to an elderly man? Probably not.

Although I'm nowhere near 80 and I wouldn't want a man to shower me.

Binterested · 04/02/2020 20:20

I don’t think any woman of any age would want a man to shower her. This is totally unacceptable - especially at home alone and vulnerable.

PityParty4one · 04/02/2020 20:20

Dont wait!!!

It's not a complaint you are making. It's your relatives choice which is totally allowed.
Dont let her be put in this position again poor love.

Just call them say a male was sent today and your aunt is not comfortable with personal care being done by a male so can you send females please.

GFJoe · 04/02/2020 20:21

Yes it is entirely inappropriate and she does have a right to request female only. I would make a complaint. I shouldn't think many females would want a male delivering their personal care, regardless of age. She should have a care plan too. The agency will have been given a copy. One should have also been sent to, (and signed by) your aunt.

PorpentinaScamander · 04/02/2020 20:21

You need to check what's in her care plan
She should have one and can request no males for personal care.

As an aside the male carers I've worked with were, on the whole, kinder and gentler than a lot of the females. We had some ladies actually requesting a particular male carer because of how respectful and lovely he was. One of them, aged 98, said "I'm sure hes seen titties before" Grin

PityParty4one · 04/02/2020 20:23

Mrs that's because as females we are socialized to be modest. To not show our bodies to males that we are not intimate with. Not to mention the fact that 98% of all sexual assaults are committed by males against females.

Males are not brought up this way but they too have the choice to have a male support worker instead of female.

Crockof · 04/02/2020 20:24

@Frequency so if as a man I choose to self Id as a woman would I then get female carers only?

GFJoe · 04/02/2020 20:24

would we say the same if a female (woman) carer was sent to administer personal care to an elderly man? Probably not
Many men don't want females delivering their personal care either, which is completely fair enough. The only problem is not nearly as many males work in the field thus it becomes more problematic to get a male carer a lot of the time.

Crockof · 04/02/2020 20:25

Agree with asking to see care plan, it iirc should be in a folder in her house.

Frequency · 04/02/2020 20:37

@Frequency so if as a man I choose to self Id as a woman would I then get female carers only?

Having never experienced such a situation nor been trained on one (yet) I'm not sure. The pensioners of today don't really see/hear much about gender and self-id. They're all fairly happy that they are what they are and don't (for the most part) claim to be unicorns or genderless aliens. Some of them are utterly convinced they're healthy, virile 21 year olds. That makes for some interesting situations when you have them naked in the bedroom and you're opposite gender/the gender they are attracted to.

Many men don't want females delivering their personal care either, which is completely fair enough

Ime, the opposite is true. Men tend to prefer females to carry out personal care for obvious reasons although there are a lot of men who prefer older females and will refuse the younger ones because it's "wrong" for "young girls" to be seeing them naked.

I'm sure one day we'll come across a spritely gentlemen who is social media savvy and will claim to be a woman and we'll all smile and nod be shipped out to do diversity training but as of yet it hasn't happened. The men are men and like women to do their personal care and the women are women and also like women to do their personal care.

hattyhatshats · 04/02/2020 20:38

I work in a community nhs team, our male staff provide personal care. Female patients can request women only but we cannot guarantee it.

There are an increasing number of men in the local care agencies too.

It's really difficult from both perspectives. A lot of our patients really like our men, as they are all very calm, kind gentle people but I can understand why they wouldn't like it. But we have to recruit according to equal ops and have a lot male staff.

Floralnomad · 04/02/2020 20:45

OP can I just point out that it’s likely you will get times other than the 8-9 that you’ve been quoted . When we had a private care agency in last year for my mum they were often late and on occasion didn’t show up at all and that’s an agency with a Good rating from the CQC .

ammarry · 05/02/2020 07:39

SS will have a promoting independence team that will start going in once the 6 weeks is up and SS are likely going to search for a long term provider.

It's likely they have not done their long term assessment yet though. Make sure someone is with her when they go to do this.

Unfortunately in some areas it's a nightmare getting carers because it's low paid shit work tbf- I had a lady who wouldn't accept a male carer so the agency gave notice and no one else would pick it up as they couldn't guarantee female only due to the staff they had and the routes etc. Lady ended up in a care home as there was no care for her... male carers in the care home too!

Original poster
CarolinaPink · 05/02/2020 17:28

Thanks again, all - all advice very welcome. We'll definitely ask about Care Plan, and we always ensure that at least one of us is with aunt when any significant meeting is happening.

The: the male carers thing, my father qualified and practised for a number of years as a male nurse. He was one of the kindest and most switched on people I've ever known, and just the sort of nurse I'd hope to have in hospital. I don't think he'd have expected elderly women to want to strip and be washed by him in their homes, though.

And FWIW, when he had to go into nursing care he found many of the male carers intimidating. It was quite a problem. I don't think he had a similar issue with the qualified male staff who were doing nursing rather than personal caring things. Clearly people differ, though.

OP posts:
okiedokieme · 05/02/2020 17:34

Unless it's specified, carers can be of either sex. Most men are cared for by women because there's a shortage of male carers.

Original poster
CarolinaPink · 05/02/2020 17:38

Most men are cared for by women because there's a shortage of male carers.

I've obviously not conducted a survey, but I think if somebody did then it would turn out that most men would not prefer to receive personal care from male carers.

OP posts:
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