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Elderly parents
Original poster

LPA - can I refuse to be attorney?

54 replies

BatshitCrazyWoman · 17/12/2019 14:04

My parents drew up their LPAs nearly 10 years ago. I'm an only child so they made me attorney. Didn't really ask me .... I was pretty low contact with them - and really don't get along with my father. My circumstances were very different then - I was (unhappily, although they didn't know that) married to a high earner, didn't work as had a disabled DC. Parents lived an hour and a half away. I had a long, acrimonious divorce, was made homeless. All very traumatic. I'm coming out of it now. I work full time, long hours and an hour long commute.

My mother died about 5 months ago and my father is increasingly frail, and has fallen a lot - just been discharged from hospital with a care package. I don't visit - I'm low contact for good reasons (won't go into them here). The social worker asked if I had POA. I have realised that I don't want to be his attorney. I'm already running my disabled DCs life, including care and health decisions and finances, so I don't have time for a start. And I don't want to.

Do I have to do anything to 'resign' from this?

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Original poster
BatshitCrazyWoman · 07/01/2020 15:43

Hopefully I can set up as much as possible to run without me. But I've already got to travel to his flat and find the LPA. Then I'll need some days off to get certified copies and make an appointment with his bank (banks? No idea what accounts he has). Will also need to instruct a solicitor and estate agent for sale of flat, arrange flat clearance, sort insurance for the period flat is empty, pay any outstanding bills (nothing will be direct debit) etc. It's a 3-4 hour round trip to his home. May need to stay so will book a B&B .... feel fed up and stressed thinking about it as I can't stand the man Sad

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Rinsefirst · 07/01/2020 17:08

Sorry when it's so stressful to add to you list. Visiting the bank is a nightmare. It took my sis and I six visits to open an account as guardians. Take a utilities bill, your driving licence, your passport and a bank statement FOR YOU then gather all of the other stuff FOR HIM. Try to find photographic identity for him if at all possible like a bus pass.

wonkylegs · 07/01/2020 17:21

I found the bank relatively straight forward even though I have a slightly complicated shared POA with conditions (my brother is an arse) as mum and I had already got accounts there so I literally just had to make an appointment with the right person at my local branch and go in for a 30min meeting to sort paperwork and permissions, I took my PITA toddler who spent most of the meeting licking the glass meeting room walls (ahh germs will build his immune system 🙄)
It was Lloyd's and they have been very very helpful throughout

Original poster
BatshitCrazyWoman · 07/01/2020 17:38

I will take everything to the bank lol Father has a passport (if I can find it!).

I've had a horrible thought that he had a joint account with my late mother and may not have sorted that out Sad

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Rinsefirst · 07/01/2020 19:44

Not sure if you are Scottish but if you are most of the banks have their legal teams in England. Working between Scots law and English law held us back as we wanted to be able to give instructions independently and not both have to sign every cheque. But thinking about it that’s a hurdle you won’t need to worry about.

Original poster
BatshitCrazyWoman · 08/01/2020 07:49

No I'm not in Scotland.

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Orangeblossom78 · 08/01/2020 08:42

Well once that is done maybe other stuff can be done online. Banking can be done online for example. Just have to get through that bit and breathe!

MereDintofPandiculation · 08/01/2020 12:21

If he did the LPA through a solicitor, the solicitor may be able to provide certified copies for you.

You're thinking clearly about what needs to be done, and that's half the battle. The worst stage is the swirling fog at the beginning, when all you see is problems and before you start seeing the route through.

As an attorney, providing you keep records, you can claim expnses necessary for carrying out your role, including travel costs (and presumably B&B if you can demonstrate it's cheaper than travelling each day). www.gov.uk/lasting-power-attorney-duties/records-expenses

TeacupDrama · 08/01/2020 12:27

my MIL wouldn't sign POA as she was "never going to lose capacity" she did and we had to go to through office of public guardian which is about 10x more expensive and hassle than POA

MereDintofPandiculation · 08/01/2020 12:55

my MIL wouldn't sign POA as she was "never going to lose capacity" It can be easier to approach in terms of car crashes and "paying for things you need when you're in hospital", or, in the case of Heath and Welfare "making sure the doctors have to pay attention to your wishes and not decide for themselves what is best for you".

Anniecott · 08/01/2020 13:02

Having been through all this recently when my estranged mum was sectioned into a care home with her dementia due to her lack of capacity for her own safety. Be careful, I activated POA on everything got the ball rolling on selling her house etc, she then passed the capacity test but agreed to stay in the home and sell the house and for me to continue to do so. Fast forward 10mths all conversations about that have been forgotten by her due to fluctuations in her capacity and she is talking to social services about a safe guarding investment into me for I've handled her estate, as she would 'never' have agreed to me doing it and they are listening to her.
I have now officially deactivated POA and am looking into how to change next of kin as well to go nc, I will never be put through the hell of the last yr again by that woman.

VanGoghsDog · 08/01/2020 13:08

I'm not keen on the idea of doing it for my parents I have to admit.

They asked me a year or so ago and I said the first thing I would do is set aside £20k to send them both to Dignitas. They've not mentioned it again since!

VanGoghsDog · 08/01/2020 13:12

looking into how to change next of kin as well to go nc

There is no legal definition of next of kin, except under the Mental Health Act, which I don't think you can overturn.

People saying "you have to do it, you're next of kin" are incorrect.

You can nominate a nok but it doesn't have any legal standing as such. And, you cannot revoke being nok since it technically doesn't exist anyway. If SS call for your support, just say "we're not in touch, I have nothing to do with her".

Original poster
BatshitCrazyWoman · 08/01/2020 13:20

Social services say my father doesn't need a care home, so his two weeks respite are up and his going home tomorrow with carers three times a day. I don't know much about his money but he doesn't have enough savings to pay for any care so that's that. I predict another fall or a call for an ambulance and then we'll start the whole merry cycle over again Hmm

I already do all this stuff for an adult disabled DC which is why I'm aware of what needs doing!

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Original poster
BatshitCrazyWoman · 08/01/2020 13:20

*he is

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GU24Mum · 08/01/2020 13:22

Hi OP,

The simple answer, as others have said, is that you don't have to do it. If your father doesn't have capacity to make a new POA and there isn't a substitute then the Office of the Public Guardian will sort it out but that will use up far more of your father's estate. Is it worth instead you keeping the role but using a solicitor to act for you and deal with most of it. The costs of that should be less and you'll have some control. That doesn't stop you resigning in the future.

I'm acting as a POA for a family member (not a parent) jointly with another family member. It's hugely stressful (and I'm reasonably well-qualified to deal with it!) but more because the relative's affairs are very complicated and there is a hideous Agatha Christie family dynamic going on which has made the whole thing far worse than it needs to be.

Hope that helps.

memberofseven · 08/01/2020 13:27

Op if your dad doesn't have any assets other than his flat the council will pay for in the home care. The poa will enable you to get him in a home (his flat will have to be sold to pay for that). Are they saying he still has capacity?

You seem to be looking at the poa as a hindrance. It actually just gives teeth to your voice.

Original poster
BatshitCrazyWoman · 08/01/2020 13:59

Because social services are saying he doesn't need a care home the only way he could stay there is if he had enough savings to pay for his care until such time as his flat was sold. I am 99.9% certain he has less than £1000 savings. So he can't go into a home.

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Original poster
BatshitCrazyWoman · 08/01/2020 14:01

SS will only pay for a home and put a charge over his flat if they agree he needs a care home, and they don't.

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TeacupDrama · 08/01/2020 14:11

Generally social services don't consider a care home unless 4 visits a day are no longer enough to ensure safety
while at home only savings above 16K are taken into account for carer visits and benefits, he will probably get some form of DLA
if he needs at some stage full time care, even when the flat is sold people only pay the full amount if more than 23k ( equity plus savings) a reduced rate until 16K then nothing
POA will preserve more of the equity in flat for you as a solicitor public guardian will charge well over £1000 a year to administrate and there is no income cap so the 16K will disappear you need to way up whether hassle now is worth 16K-funeral costs later
I would make sure you get old photos of you as a child or anything else that maybe in flat sooner rather than later
once his savings plus equity = 16K he will get free care in a home but the council will take all pensions /dla except about £24 as pocket money ( personal expenses) so he can buy newspapers sweets biscuits clothes shoes and things like shampoo

Original poster
BatshitCrazyWoman · 08/01/2020 14:18

He doesn't get DLA. He doesn't qualify (I know about DLA and PIP!!). He doesn't get Attendance Allowance either (I will be working out if he's entitled next week when I have time).

But at the moment he will be at home with carers three times a day. I already know there'll be no inheritance for me I'm not the slightest bit bothered about that! £1000 a year to not have to do any of it sounds great!

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Orangeblossom78 · 09/01/2020 06:58

He might get AA. the success rates are 70%, seems easier than PIP / DLA. there are places can do the forms for him, CAB etc. I feel for you. My brother is doing some of the stuff for my dad. It is stressful.

Orangeblossom78 · 09/01/2020 06:59

Have a look at Out of the FOG site it might help there is an elderly section too

Original poster
BatshitCrazyWoman · 09/01/2020 07:19

He wouldn't seek help for an AA application, I'd have to do it.

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Original poster
BatshitCrazyWoman · 09/01/2020 08:12

Not really in the FOG now - not spoken to my father for weeks, just did these couple of phone calls yesterday.

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