In cancer denial

[LindaLa]

This is about a very close friends parents (they helped raise me when my mum died).

Both are early 70s, dm has Parkinson's and is slowly getting worse and df had heart attack and bypass surgery a month ago.

Whilst he was in hospital they found cancer. Lungs and bowel.

He is refusing to listen. Keeps saying they need to do more test and I'll keep refusing to let them.

His notes say "advanced cancer - refused treatment."

He won't listen to anyone.

I know I can't smack sense into him but how can I help my friend and her mum?

I realise that this is upsetting news for you, but the patient is entitled to make their own decisions about their health. It is fine if he doesn't want to have any further tests or treatment. Just support him, your friend and her mum

well how does your friend feel?

He might prefer palliative care only and that's his choice to make. Quite often, advanced cancer treatment is just dragging out end of life - my father died of cancer and the doctors carried on treatment very late and he agreed to it. It was the worst time of my life and dad's life - he just couldn't let go.

What do you think your friend and her mum need? Is it that they find his choice hard to accept, or that they are just coming to terms with it all? The uncertainty is horrific.

also he is wise to refuse tests

my father cried some days when they wanted to do more tests, he was in so much pain already. I kept saying "you can refuse" but then he'd agree and they'd wheel him off crying. It was bloody awful.

He doesn't believe anything is wrong.

He wants to go home and all will return to normal.

He is currently back in hospital because he is having trouble breathing.

He will not have carers.

He refuses to even let my friend come In to wash up.
He insists he is fine.

Her mum is not strong enough to be a carer for him.

If he was alone, I'd just leave him be but he isn't.

Many thanks for the replies and sympathy for those who have similar situations.

what a difficult situation for your friend, OP. The absolute blunt reality is that he's being incredibly selfish - his poor wife. His decisions will have a massive negative impact on her.

Could you contact McMillan for your friend's dm to get some support?

Sorry you are all going through this.
I arranged for a mental health nurse to assist my mother when she was in hospital and she helped her rationalise her thoughts about her treatment and refusals. It really helped her but didn’t change the outcome unfortunately.

ah, refusing care and expecting his wife to do it is completely wrong.

that is an area where you might be able to help. I had a friend whose mum expected her to do all her care - the shock of a stranger going in and saying "your daughter will break under the strain" did actually work and she got a carer.

I wouldn't focus on the cancer, I would focus on the fact that there are tasks that need doing and someone needs to help.

If he is in hospital, he will be assessed before he is discharged - so his family could speak to a hospital social worker while he is in,.

My friend and I (I'm a next of kin) spoke to his named nurse and said they'd refer him to O.T
We've constantly told Drs, nurses, pals etc that he cannot go home without a care plan but because he refuses they say "nothing we can do"

@CassianAndor

Thank you. I completely agree that he is being selfish and I want to tell him that, yet also don't want to upset a dying man

Your friend needs to go to the hospital and ask for a meeting with the charge nurse of his ward. She needs to tell them very bluntly " Nobody at home can care for him ". Your friend needs to be assertive about this, otherwise the staff will think that he has people at home who can do the caring.

@ShippingNews

She has.

He keeps telling everyone that there are many people to help (there isn't) and he needs to get home as he is a carer for his wife!
He keep being told to stop saying that but he just says he'll say what he needs to to get home.

I can see both sides.
He is a cancer patient that needs care yet he is also a cancer patient refusing treatment and taking up a bed for someone who'd love the opportunity of treatment.

It's horrendous

He needs to be told he must do everything for himself if he is refusing help.
I have had family move into the hospital to see if it is possible.
No nursing help if this has been refused at home.
It is often then that the patient realises that they cannot do everything.

he is also a cancer patient refusing treatment and taking up a bed for someone who'd love the opportunity of treatment

That's not true. Be annoyed with him for rational reasons, but don't go looking for extra things to blame him for. No-one will not get cancer treatment because he has a bed for a few days.

But yes, refusing treatment is fine. But not accepting help, isn't.
Surely the fact that his wife has Parkinsons is something that his lies can't hide?
I would have thought that would flag up care needs straight off.

There are lots of helplines for people with cancer and their families. I would call one of those as the first step. This won't be an unusual situation for them. They might be able to help.

also he is wise to refuse tests
Not necessarily, @RosaWaiting
My husband was diagnosed with cancer of the bowel, lungs and liver. He had all the tests and treatment going, and though cure was never an option, he lived two more years of good quality life.

I'm sorry your dad was in so much discomfort (my husband fortunately wasn't) but I think it's important not to generalise about what someone with a cancer diagnosis should or shouldn't do.

@saraclara

Both my friend and I sound like broken records every time someone approaches his bed to talk about "moving forward " we say no carers, disabled wife, won't let anyone help etc.

They always act surprised that he hasn't got carers.

He is a very convincing man.

It's a very sad situation and a similar situation we were in recently. My FIL was diagnosed with cancer. He didn't want to talk about it, acknowledge it or have anything to do with the hospital. As a result we knew very little info but we had to respect his decision and kept everything as normal as possible until the symptoms became too much for him and he was admitted to hospital. Even when he was there on his death bed he in denial. My advice is although you don't agree, ultimately it's his decision and one that should be respected. Good luck

It's just so hard to accept that he is not looking at the bigger picture.

My friend and I are now just going to shift our focus onto dm.

She is the one who'll need the support and help, she knows and is being very practical about it.

It's sad that instead of being able to enjoy the time they have left, he is angry due to the pain as he won't take any meds.
Part of me wants to whisk my friend and her dm away so he can see the reality of what he is doing but none of us would leave him.

sara I wasn’t trying to generalise, just saying the choice is individual. Apologies.

As you’ve raised it though, if someone doesn’t want to live the extra time that might be available too, that is their right.

OP if he won’t take painkillers that’s a very hard thing to see. There actually might be an argument that his wife and daughter don’t visit for a while to save their strength a little.

Is he in a position where any time can be “enjoyed” btw?

PS OP what does his wife say to social workers? We said bluntly that we couldn’t help dad at home.

Would his wife accept carers, and play along that they were for her, whilst he was actually getting the help too?

I know it shouldn't be necessary, but I also know how stubborn older men can sometimes be! If it was done from a 'it will help your wife who you love dearly' point of view (ie. emotional blackmail!), maybe he might accept it?