Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Elderly parents

Paying for a care home

32 replies

MrsWobble3 · 02/05/2019 10:20

My mil has Alzheimer’s and is currently cared for at home. She is running out of money so I think we will need to move her into a care home and sell her house to pay the fees. The problem is that her house is unmortgageable so could take some time to sell. How does she pay the care home fees during this period if she has no money but has assets (the house) over £23k? She cannot borrow money as the house is not acceptable security.

OP posts:
H0tterthanecpected · 02/05/2019 14:25

Suggest you would need to get 3 or more estate agents to value the property
Property developers may be interested in buying it, to knock down and rebuild
You could also sell via property auctions
I've seen a few unmortgagable properties advertised, they normally state why he concrete construction, house boat, wood etc

wigglypiggly · 02/05/2019 17:00

Ask her council about deferred payments.

7to25 · 02/05/2019 21:32

Could you sell at auction?
Buyers there are used to unmortgageable properties and turnover time is shorter

waltzingparrot · 02/05/2019 21:42

Essex CC paid my mum's care home fees until her house was sold and then she paid them back.

YouJustDoYou · 02/05/2019 21:48

You need to talk to you local council for proper advice.

MereDintofPandiculation · 03/05/2019 07:35

If she is living at home, then the value of her house isn't taken into account when calculating her contribution to care fees. So you need to talk to the Council about the level of care they are prepared to give her , that is, if you feel she is better off continuing at home for longer.

MrsWobble3 · 03/05/2019 08:56

Thanks everyone. We haven’t yet approached the council because we’re trying to understand what the options might be first. Mil still has money for another year or so - but apart from the Alzheimer’s she is in good physical shape so it is quite likely she will run out of funds at some point. We are keen to avoid having no choice about her care at this point. It is more complicated because sil doesn’t want to sell the family home and appears to believe that she only has to explain this to the council for them to give us access to the magic money tree!

OP posts:
Mishappening · 03/05/2019 09:02

Not a problem - talk to local SSD - they will pay for care pro tem and simply put a legal charge on the property and when it sells they recoup their money.

littlebillie · 11/05/2019 17:50

Seek financial advice and contact her social worker

fiftiesmum · 12/05/2019 10:33

Why is there always the reluctance to sell the family home to pay care home fees - and usually by member of the family who have had no active role in looking after the elderly person involved - perhaps to ensure their inherit

fiftiesmum · 12/05/2019 10:38

Why is there often a reluctance by family members to sell the family home to pay care home fees often by those who have had no active part in the care of the elderly person. Are they as reluctant to let go of their precious memories once there is a chance to get their hands on the cash. We were lucky in that mum sold the family home while still capable and DSis couldn't complain when we sold her house to pay fees.

rwalker · 12/05/2019 10:48

Why is there always the reluctance to sell the family home to pay care home fees - and usually by member of the family who have had no active role in looking after the elderly person involved - perhaps to ensure their inherit

Think it's to do with the unfairness of it my parents home is there pride and joy .When we were kids both parents had 2 jobs to pay for it .They have done without holidays run old cars paid highrate tax sometimes. Always been there goal to leave something for there family.
There friend who if they earned a £1 spent £1.01 work cash in hand alot of the time done equity realise on house spent it on cruises ,cars and general shit . Would get it funded

fiftiesmum · 12/05/2019 15:24

I feel like that as well about the unfairness of the system where a person who has a medical problem is cared for at NHS expense but dementia is not classed as a medical problem by government.
The other unfairness is care home fees. A typical place may cost the home £800 to run and because the local authority will have a contact to pay £600 a month then all the self funders will be paying over £1000 to make up for it.

endofthelinefinally · 12/05/2019 17:27

A place un a dementia unit costs around £900 per week for self funders.
LA funding is around £500 per week.
Not per month.
It is staggering.
The NHS contribution would be less than £100.

MereDintofPandiculation · 12/05/2019 21:15

For me it's the unfairness. I do not want to live with dementia. The phrase "keep your mum safe" fills me with terror. But to be kept alive in a living hell ... and have taken from me all the money I've saved with the intention of making my children's life easier, and knowing that someone else will be able to pass everything to their children because they were deemed to have medical needs.

fiftiesmum · 13/05/2019 07:24

Sorry I meant per week. That is even more money that those who have saved are subsiding the others by.
I suppose you could make your children's lives easier by passing on the money sooner rather than later and early enough so you are not intentionally depriving the authority like I have seen quite a few people do

MereDintofPandiculation · 13/05/2019 09:30

I suppose you could make your children's lives easier by passing on the money sooner rather than later and early enough so you are not intentionally depriving the authority like I have seen quite a few people do But how early does that need to be? LAs are digging further and further back, and it could be that if you leave it till your 60s it's too late ... but in your 60s you still don't know what your own needs are.

fiftiesmum · 13/05/2019 14:26

Does anyone know how far the LA will go digging back (although going from previous dealings with our LA I don't think they are capable of digging a hole at the beach). Most homes near us have both self and LA funded residents and I assume the staff are not aware who is who so treated the same regardless and neighbours being cared for at home are visited by carers from the same agency.
I personally would not want to see my children accumulate huge student debt, have insufficient deposit to rent or buy somewhere to live or to have an unreliable car when they need it for work and have lots of savings just in case.

endofthelinefinally · 13/05/2019 15:37

They can dig as far as they like and pay very expensive lawyers.

Myimaginarycathasfleas · 13/05/2019 17:50

OP to answer your question the LA will put a charge on the property and recoup the cost when it sells, however long that takes.

Selling the house cheaply will release the money sooner. Depending on her life expectancy and the value of the property that might be the sensible option. The LA will take over funding her care when the proceeds of sale run out, so you might as well get rid of the responsibility of the property and have one less thing to worry about.

Myimaginarycathasfleas · 13/05/2019 18:03

Deprivation of assets is about making deliberate attempts to divest oneself of funds in order to avoid paying for care fees. That's not the same as using one's savings to help family members before the idea of going into care is on the cards.

From personal experience we found our LA very reasonable when assessing my DM's assets. We were prepared for a lot of questions (for which we had the answers) but their approach was very compassionate. We were allowed, for example, to take out a funeral plan so that we wouldn't have to pay it from her final estate.

I'm surprised at the number of people who expect their parent to go into care and still have an inheritance as a matter of right.

You can avoid care fees by looking after your parent in your home till they die, as our grandparents did.

If you want someone else to deal with their shit, figuratively and literally, you have to expect to pay for it.

fiftiesmum · 14/05/2019 08:27

I wish the choice was that simple either pay for care or do it yourself but as OP says her DSis wants to keep the house so the choice is more complex. You can get away without paying care fees by leaving it all to another member of the family. We looked after mum for a short time at home but it took its toll with the whole of our family (work, education etc as on call 24/7) plus constant criticism from siblings who did nothing to help. She has moved into a home and visits are pleasant. Siblings still don't visit and I hope every penny is spent.

Myimaginarycathasfleas · 14/05/2019 12:34

@fiftiesmum I don't disagree with you. I was answering the poster who said that it wasn't fair that someone couldn't pass their life's savings to their children instead of paying for their own care.

I brought both of my parents to live with me when they couldn't cope. Both had dementia, both eventually went into care. Their time with us was precious but unbelievably hard. Going into care reset our relationship. My DM is happy and well cared for, I visit most days and I know her needs are being properly met.

I may have given up my inheritance but I kept my sanity. I think it was a reasonable price to pay.

If the OP's DSis wants to keep the house she needs to step up.

MereDintofPandiculation · 15/05/2019 11:42

Deprivation of assets is about making deliberate attempts to divest oneself of funds in order to avoid paying for care fees. That's not the same as using one's savings to help family members before the idea of going into care is on the cards.

The problem is whether you can still help family members once going into care is "on the cards" and at what stage the LA consider it's "on the cards".

I'm surprised at the number of people who expect their parent to go into care and still have an inheritance as a matter of right. I think what people have been expressing is the fundamental unfairness of a scheme that says "if you have a disease which needs medical care your children can inherit everything; if your disease causes mainly social needs, they inherit (virtually) noting". And the fact that care can be so open ended means that insurance is prohibitively expensive - a big catastrophe in life, and you can't practicably insure for it in the way you would for, eg, your house burning down.

You can avoid care fees by looking after your parent in your home till they die, as our grandparents did. But in our grandparents day, people didn't live so long, they didn't live so long in ill-health, and they were far less likely to have dementia. And if they did have dementia, the medical profession were much less good at keeping their bodies going. It's not realistic for one person, even with help from a partner, to keep a 24 hour watch on someone, as well as washing and dressing them, toileting them, feeding them, dealing with levels of medication that were unheard of 40 years ago, dressing ulcerated legs or pressure sores, coping with disturbed or even aggressive behaviour. Let alone doing this while still looking after children or doing a full time job.

MereDintofPandiculation · 15/05/2019 11:45

You can get away without paying care fees by leaving it all to another member of the family. I'm not sure you can - if you leave it in your Will, then it's included in the assessment. If you try to pre-empt by giving it to another family member while you are still alive, then LAs are able to assess you as if your financial position was the same as if you hadn't given the money away. So if they assess you as self-funding, you either cope without care, or your family have to stump up.