Supporting spouse - PIL, dementia, controlling SIL

[Slugslasher]

Quick background info: We have been NC with controlling sil (csil) for over 15 years for multiple reasons having lived away (the latter 4 years, at the other side of the world). 20 months ago when H retired we returned about 40 minutes drive from pil’s home. H also has a B and N(ice) sil (nsil) who along with csil live 5 minutes drive from pil.

csil has always been extremely (joined at the hip) close to pil and has over decades been a toxic influence on them and her brother and his wife until eventually bil and nsil saw the light and went no contact with her also. Despite csil’s best efforts both sons aided by their wives (me and nsil) managed to maintain a loving relationship with pil. Pil tried to steer their ship through all the ups and downs of their fractured family relationship - appeasing csil (as she screamed the loudest) allowing her full control of their lives.

Csil was widowed tragically in her early forties with two young children (she is now 58). We as a family were very supportive to her when this happened but sil decided ‘that part of her life was over’ and wore her widow’s weeds with aplomb. As the years passed sil and pil’s lives became more and more entwined with pil heavily involved with childcare so csil could carry on working. As pil became older csil then gradually turned the tables until neither could live without the other and she became the support to them. Eventually pil could not make any decisions for themselves, ran everything past her, domination of them was complete. Both of her now adult children still live with their mother. Both are ‘odd’ neither have managed to maintain adult relationships; their mother was highly controlling as they grew up; both were very unpleasant to us, we assumed this was due their mother’s toxicity - we did not add flames to any fires. NC was our way of managing csil and her little family.

csil in my opinion, has serious mental issues. She catastophises everything. She has cried wolf so many times that we now do not react until we see first-hand whatever crisis occurs (usually a storm in a teacup). Her anxiety levels are sky high and her anger and jealousy at my Dh - (her brother) even higher. Mostly I think the fact we moved away from the area and dared to have a happy life beyond the narrow confines of her life has angered her. She is now trying to use her ailing parents as a tool with which to control us and her other brother and wife.

Fast forward to the situation today : Both pil are now 90 (fil) and 87 (mil). Both with memory problems both 100% reliant on her, who is now self appointed carer. She is paid by pil to be their carer and because there are no assets (social housing - no savings) we volunteered to top up her earnings to make up her ‘wages’ so that she wasn’t out of pocket. Csil will not countenance outside help, until both brothers forced the issue and a cleaner was brought in to lighten the load. Nsil and I do not get involved in any decision making but support the brothers in a weekly rota to help. DH and I go every Tuesday. He does the grocery shopping, I prepare and serve the main meal (lunch), prepare afternoon tea for them to serve themselves and do some light housework. Bil and nsil do the same on Sundays. Csil manages everything else. Fil is blind, confused, has a severe tremor and diabetes. He has insulin injected every day (by csil because she is an ex nurse and fell out with the district nurses). Mil is on a zimmer, struggling to walk, completely confused and does not recognise she is in her own home now. Csil refuses point blank to consider care home for either of them and is in the process of autonomously taking them into her own home. Pil will do as they are told and are under complete control of csil.

Both brothers do not agree that she should do this but she is overruling them and steaming ahead with it.

Epic story. Thank you for reading if you have stayed with it.

I am using this as a way of keeping check on events as they unfold and will welcome constructive advice how to handle the fallout when csil crashes and burns. I am seriously worried about her (as much as I do not like her). Nobody could cope with what she is insisting on taking on.

I will add that DH has been emphatic that he has not worked for over 46 years to become a carer. I offered to take father into our home (fog) to lighten her load but DH will not budge.

Currently financial assessments are being made and occupational therapists are assessing csil’s home. We are aghast.

I'm delurking Slug to say that whilst I don't have direct experience of your situation I've been reading your thread since the start, I have experienced a close family member with dementia.

Someone with advanced dementia really needs a whole team of people looking after them, simply because it's so bloody constant and difficult.

In a way I do understand why CSIL wants to look after them, not many people want to 'give their parents up' to residential care.
Which is not to say that I think she's doing the right thing, or that she's going about it the right way, far from it.

It's difficult but you are doing right by yourself and your family and that's the best you can do now. When my time comes it's what I would want my DCs to do. In fact, I tell them frequently to please just put me in a home if it comes to it.

One of the saddest things about dementia is that you do mourn the loss of that person while they're still alive

It is a huge dilemma @NancyWho. Yes both H and I after experiencing watching their slow decline into advanced old age/infirmity have put into place poa so that our two sons can help us make the right decisions for all of us without guilt on their part. We are lucky we have the means to sell our property/trade down when we feel the time is right. We don’t want either of them to face the heartache of having to make the decisions that pil’s children have struggled to make.

H tells me he left them peaceful and content in csil’s home. It remains to be seen how long Csil manages to cope. She will be relieved to be rid of the responsibility of running two houses but now has effectively become a prisoner in her own home. I understand her heart ruling her head but the reality of her commitment has yet to be endured. I am sad and torn with conflicting emotions for all of us. It is not going to be easy for the brothers to stand by while their sister bears the brunt and not be drawn drawn in to a ‘care plan’ by default.

I will return to this thread as time goes on. It helps to keep perspective amongst the FOG.

Thanks for listening everyone.

Well it seems as though the realisation of what csil has taken on is finally hitting home for her.

Nsil visited with bil on Sunday (now as visitors - not as ‘helpers’), their second ‘Sunday visit’ since pil moved into their D’s home: nsil informed me ‘the cracks are starting to show’.

The finances are problematic (as predicted ). Csil is complaining that “she has not had the ‘promised extra help’ SW had promised that was to pay for her own chosen local lady whom she pays ‘cash in hand’ to do domestics; pil’s income/benefits reduced immediately they moved in with her and she has to pay back three weeks over-payments as they received them for longer than they should have. I’m not involved with the finances but do know Csil was told that their income would drop once they moved out of their home and into hers.

Parents however are content and well looked after. Csil panders to their every whim and mil in her demented state acts like a child demanding coffee and biscuits constantly; is up all night for toileting several times, has had ‘accidents’. Fil’s personal care is becoming more demanding, although he ‘sees to himself’, the state he leaves the bathroom/towels/ is disgusting (he is blind/tremor - he doesn’t see the shit trail left for others to clean up). The bathroom upstairs which he uses is shared by csil’s adult children, they are complaining to their mother about this.

According to nsil - csil has been very angry at whomever she is in contact with at social services regarding promised finances and they have reacted to her anger by stating “it appears you are not coping”.

We have been away all week visiting our son and his family (new baby) at the other end of the country returning last night. H will visit his parents today and will make his own judgement of the situation. I am sticking to my guns and will remain ‘no contact’.

Ongoing.

It must be hard for all of you, op. I do sympathise with what CSIL is trying to do to an extent but it does sound like it comes from a mix of motives, some selfish and some not. I hope your PILs are ok and adjusting to their new circumstances.

Your situation keeps popping into my head OP, how are things going?

Hello again. A quick update: We are nine weeks in and finally after a valiant effort from Csil who it must be said has given it her best, has hoisted up her white flag.

Both parents have deteriorated and their dependence on their daughter as predicted has become more demanding. Mil is agitated and confused constantly through the night keeping the whole household awake. She has soiled the bed several times but Csil will not put her in incontinence pads (no idea why). Fil refuses to shower and put on clean clothes which causes friction between him and Csil. She shouts at him and he swears at her. Fil leaves the (shared) bathroom in a disgusting state and Csil’s adult children have that to deal with before they use it. They are starting to complain loudly to their mother adding to her pressure. Both brothers (and nsil) are visiting regularly and can see Csil sinking. She is getting no rest and can’t be out of sight from mil for more than a minute without huge agitation from mil who panics.

Csil yesterday called in the crisis team who are arranging to put them both into respite on Monday. This is a HUGE step forward for Csil, to admit that she cannot do this any more. We (as a family) are now on a mission to get them both into full time care as I don’t think Csil will take them back after respite. Hopefully the three siblings will be on the same page now that it is established the current situation cannot continue. One step at a time...

Gosh. Just as you predicted. SIL has to do it her way and she failed( not surprising....it's a hell of a task). Hope you find a suitable care home for them both.

Positive update: Both have settled into a lovely local care home following 24 hours of confusion and agitation, father is beaming and saying he wants to stay there, mother is agreeing with him saying “as long as we are together”. Social worker along with care home staff are assessing their needs this week (father has deteriorated rapidly since he was last assessed). Csil is offering little resistance although ‘is reserving judgement of nursing home’. We have a full meeting with siblings and sw in a week. Fingers crossed they are allocated permanent rooms there. Currently in adjacent rooms with access to day room and lovely conservatory. So relieved. I am hoping pil continue to ask to remain there. Fil was emphatic he didn’t want to return to his daughter’s and complained he was unhappy there. (Meeting with nsil and sw who specifically called knowing csil was not there in order to ascertain their wishes without her present.

Hooray!!! That is fantastic news. This was sadly what always needed to happen. She had to experience the full horror to accept that it was a terrible plan.
I truly hope they will both be happy there, and that all family relationships can slowly heal.

Fabulous update! What a relief.

Great news. I hope it all works out.

Great update, really hope it all works out.

I guess you always knew this would be the outcome just didn’t know the timescale. Good luck and hopefully csil and family move towards the same page as the rest of you once they have had a bit of rest.

Very glad to hear that you've got things on the right track👍
but I wonder what the batshit sister-in-law will do next.....😲

Csil is flagging up concerns and nit picking about the carehome. It’s going to be a bumpy ride. She has however conceded that she cannot take them back to her house so at least we have that established.

The world revolves around them in her eyes. She will take her battles to the care home now. Siblings meet with carehome/social worker/parents on Wednesday. Fingers crossed they can find a permanent place for them and csil can get them to toe her line (!). I’m just a bystander now but visit placate and reassure them as best I can whilst this is going on. Father is happy to stay there, mother says “as long as they are together” then asks when is she going home. She has forgotten that her house has been given up and she has been living at her daughter’s home.

No home other than her own will be good enough for your csil. She will or can not admit how much better they are being cared for as it means she admits she couldn't do it.
Care homes are very used to this. It is very hard to admit and some find it shameful ( this is bonkers ) that parents end up in a home at all.
She may get over herself with time but will probably kick off at the slightest infraction ( in her eyes ). In my bitter experience it gets worse ( I can't believe YOU let them end up there ) etc be prepared. Her whole identity has been wrapped up in their care, and she will blame everyone else instead of taking any ownership of this decision.. " if I had more help..we would have muddled through.."
I do not mean to depress you and hopefully it does not go there but a warning that it might.

Well she has made her presence felt. Chairs are not suitable; budgie in a cage to be removed from mothers’ vicinity; position in room where mother was sitting; drinks; diet; father is a diabetic and has his bloods checked regularly has insulin injections daily and is greedy so her strict diet regime is out of the window. She has had hell on with the staff because they are letting him have biscuits, sugar in his tea instead of sweetners and meal choices including puddings (he is overjoyed 😆) Csil is going apeshit and is highly annoyed the carehome manager works M-F and staff are not pandering to her parents needs to her exact requirements but as it’s the weekend she can’t take issue. It hasn’t been a week yet.

I have just read your thread from the start!

I cannot believe the stupidity of CSIL she should have moved in with her DO and let her adult DC look after themselves... it would have bought enough time for them to still end up in respite.

Anyhow it's lovely that PIL are now in an appropriate place. I hope as soon as you stop subbing CSIL you will be able to bestow gifts of appreciation on the staff caring for PIL having to put up with CSIL!

I hope PIL remain as happy as possible

I wonder if abusive family members ever get restraining orders issued by care homes?

Crazy sister-in-law appears to have narcissistic traits, she is using the parents as weapons, as a means of extending her power, she wields them like swords
In her unconscious mind they are a kind of representation of her, making the world revolve around then is a way of making the world revolve around her
(I hope that makes sense)

Thank you for this thread. It's been so interesting and it's really reminded me that we need to get this sorted for MIL (80) who had a nasty fall this week. Big family so it's going to need some discussion.

Good luck Wallywobbles. 💕

Following a week of all of us visiting at different times the whole family (including csil) have realised that due to the behaviour of mil, poor fil is not getting any peace due to being on high alert for her. Anxiety and confusion is causing her to be disruptive through the night; staff are indicating that she is disturbing everyone on their floor and during the day her constant anxiety is giving him no peace. It is getting him down. The three siblings are now together in their concern for fil’s quality of life. They are coming together on this one in their communications to each other. Csil has experienced first hand this while they lived with her - causing her to capitulate. Siblings will be raising this at the meeting on Wednesday. Finally it appears they are on the same page and working together to find a solution for him.

Pretty eventful week for all of you. The 24/7 anxiety experienced by MiL will be managed so much better by a team. My own DM was like this for four weeks when she initially moved out of her home to both mine and my DSis when DF was hospitalised. She ended up being sectioned as she became violent. DM was medicated and now she has 'happy' dementia where she is relaxed and says 'I love you' to everyone. Removing MiL from her familiar will have triggered extra anxiety and made her increasingly frightened. Pretty sure the assessing care home will say she will respond much better once she as been differently medicated. I bet they try to give FiL some me-time when they can.
So glad for you all that there is now a shared objective. However, Ruby and Hearhere seem to have the measure of things. Hearhere 's thoughts in particular made sense to the situation.
I guess Wednesday will come down to what's best / finances/ what affordable home has availability for two.

Fingers crossed the assessing care home ends up taking them full time. Looking positively the care home manager will see that FiL is quite endearing and will see beyond the immediate problems of MiL. With luck they will also realise there are 'normal' family visitors as well as CSil. If any of you can tell CSiL that kicking off about current home might not be in the best interests as a bird -in-the-hand and all that...
The other alternatives might mean parents are in different places albeit temporarily, or maybe same venue but on different floors or somewhere less nicely appointed. You already you know that the catering meets the mark. Hang on in there.

Somewhat tangential but it appears that we need a whole team of people to deal with each difficult elderly person
going forward how is this going to pan out?
We have falling birth rates and increasing numbers of elderly people requiring care, there will not be enough people available and willing to look after them all, or should I say us all because by the time my cohort get to the elderly point the situation will surely be much more acute