Moving an elderly person to a home

[ImNotWhoYouThinkIAmOhNo]

Yes, that old chestnut, and a very emotive subject. In brief, DH, only child, has been supporting his parents for the last 4 years, during which time both were diagnosed with dementia. He put in an excellent care package of private carers, home visits by chiropodist, hairdresser, dentist, doctor, psychiatrist etc etc - you name it. Not to mention the time he (and I, and our DCs) put in every week as well. We both work full-time. He has POA.

MIL was recently widowed and the house needs a lot of work, but she won't accept DH's assertion that it's becoming unsafe (eg electrics - some of the sockets no longer work). A home would provide other benefits to her but she's having none of it.

Has anyone else had a parent refuse to move to a home in any circumstances, and how did you persuade them to move?

Could he ask ask a letting agent for a contact number for a local handy man who can be kept on retainer for her to call out for heating/electrical emergencies?

Nursing homes really are terrible value for money as most are privately owned for profit by remote investors.

In reality he would probably need to be jusr as involved if she was in a home as a lot of relates end up having to be there a lot just to make sure theyre getting the care theyre paying for...

A lot of sheltered/wardened retirement homes are also money pits that are NOT designed with the elderly in mind (ask any physio)

P.s. Im not anti nursing homes. Im just not convinced your Mil is quite at that point yet. I think her own home sounds the best place for her but with a few tweaks

Caake it might seem selfish but if you were an independent older person who thought,in your mind, that you were coping well would you want to be dumped in a home? I dread a loss of independence and have told my children I would rather go to the clinic in Switzerland.

One word of advice op. Start looking at care homes now. If/when there is a crisis you may need to move quickly. When my mum was admitted to hospital she was in there for 2-3 months - on a general ward while they investigated the pains that had taken her there, in a physio unit to regain the ability to walk which she'd lost while on the ward and then in a mental unit to investigate her confusion (where she lost her mobility again).

For all of those 2-3 months we were told that she'd be able to return home with carers and my dsis looking after her. (This was a 90 year old woman who couldn't walk, was crippled with arthritis, couldn't see properly and was suffering from severe dementia.). When we finally had a best needs meeting at hospital we were told that she couldn't return home and 'had we found somewhere for her to go?' We pointed out that until that point we had been told very firmly that she would return home. So they kindly gave us 3 days to find somewhere. If we hadn't found somewhere by then they would ship her out to any available place while we continued looking. Because we didn't want her moved twice we went all out looking at local care homes.

We did find somewhere which was very nice and where they took great care of mum during her last two years.

It sounds really frustrating for you, has she had a GP home visit recently, she needs to have a memory test and assessed properly. Have you looked at the age uk site, they were really helpful with our same problem. If you feel she is unsafe at home and at risk of self neglect you can speak to your local social services. What part of the country is she living, is it a good elderly support area.

Sand I wouldn't suggest anyone is "dumped in a home".** The selfishness I describe lies in the inability of some older people to see how the maintenance of their preferred circumstances affects the lives of those who care for them.

In the end we just stopped helping and the carers soon realised it was an impossible and unsafe home situation. Have you spoken to the social worker, explain that you can not help at the moment and they need to sort out other arrangements. Aw

The selfishness I describe lies in the inability of some older people to see how the maintenance of their preferred circumstances affects the lives of those who care for them.

CAAKE - totally understand this. I think part of the problem is that many old people didn't experience this with their own parents. People tended to die of strokes, heart attacks etc long before things like dementia could take hold. I only really knew one of my gps because the others died early from cancer in two cases and a stroke in another.

Thanks to the wonders of modern medicine however, my parents lived until 87 and 92. (And really, I wouldn't wish the last 2-3 years each experienced on my worst enemy). Dsis and I spent about 10 years trying to get them to face reality and accept help. It put me and in particular my dsis under huge strain. Having been through that I'm sure we will both try and make sure our own dcs don't experience similar.

Like you Sandgrown - I hope I have the courage to take myself off to Switzerland when/if it comes to it.

Sorry if this has been mentioned as I didn't read the whole thread but does your husband have power of welfare? That will help if she becomes less able to look after herself.....x

You could help your husband by looking for a suitable care home, and putting her on the waiting list - anywhere good is likely to have one. If she gets to the top of the list, you can say "not yet" and keep your place on the list. If it comes to an emergency, you may have little choice as to where she goes if you're not prepared
If she has a dementia diagnosis then sheltered housing may well not accept her.
You could try Talking Point, the Alzheimers website, for support and information

I agree on that point. We helped an older relative house hunt because they dont drive: talk about banging your head against a brick wall!! " well I always LIKED spiral staircases and I want a house with character!". Ffs. What about your poor carer who has to carry your full comode pots up and down them???

Sometimes people do not want to move to a home for fear of what they think it may be like.

I would suggest finding one you like and see if she would agree to going in for respite or on trial basis and leave everything else unchanged at home. Perhaps suggest a time period so you both know what you are agreeing to and she can feel more in control.

If she likes it, or forgets that it is not home (depending on how advanced her dementia is) she may stay.

I used to work as a social worker with older people and for many they likened going in to care as like the works house, even if they had never seen a care home. Other people when their dementia became so advanced and they were living at 'home' when asked did not know where they were (but thought they were somewhere thirty years back.

If you treat her calmly and with respect and allow her familiar things in her new home she is more likely to settle very well 💐

Thanks for all your comments, thoughts and sympathy, it's all appreciated!

DH contacted some care homes a while back. They all said cheerfully: "bring your mother round - she'll know which one feels right for her!" But MIL simply refuses even to visit one. You'd think it was the work-house he's talking about. She regularly reminds us that she didn't "put" her own mother into a home. This is true, but her own mother was widowed young and adapted, remained fitter, had far less support from her own family, did not develop dementia, and died at a younger age! It's MIL's trump card

Our own retirement plans involve downsizing to a single-story new-build house, and a pot of money to maintain it!

Here's to everyone else who's caring for elderly parents.

I had an electrician do an electrical check on my house, every socket and he replaced something it cost me £125 and I received a certificate. You could ask a few electricians for a quote

It was an electrical safety check with certificate issued after everything was checked and made safe. If rewire was needed the electrician should quote for the extra work. Mine took a half day, but no major repairs were necessary

You'd think it was the work-house he's talking about

I do sympathise, I really do! I cared for my mother who lived with us for about 4 years until she died. It felt like hell on earth some days for me and my poor Mum, even with two lovely private carers to assist. When you had mentioned having private carers, I wrongly assumed you meant not from an Agency. If you find the right person/people who are self-employed carers/home helps, and are a good fit for your Mil, it might work out better, as they can get to know each other, instead of having different people every shift. Your Mil might even agree to more help, if it is from someone she has got to know well. And they can certainly take on things like doctor's appointments and the like. The private ladies Mum had would take her for outings etc. till she got too frail, and of course you aren't having to pay Agency rates.

As far as Homes go, I was always on the look-out for the 'perfect' Home, which would have taken the pressure off, but I'm sorry to say that my experience of the 4 different Homes where Mum did go for 1/2 weeks respite a year, and the Home my Father-in-law is in now, is that they are pretty dire. Not because the staff are cruel or set out to be nasty, but because poor staff/resident ratios and high turnover mean that far from the happy family atmosphere Homes try to convey, the more dependent residents are got up, kept clean (ish - e.g. her dentures were never cleaned in any of the Homes unless I did it on visits, despite me asking the Managers/different staff), given food (but not always help to eat it - I sometimes turned up after a mealtime to find she hadn't been able to access it. Luckily she liked lukewarm soup!)), given medication (not always at the right times), and put to bed. Maybe helped to an activity now and again, if they're lucky. A lot of the time they are left on their own. Staff simply don't have the time to sit and chat. I think, ironically, you have to be comparatively robust, mobile and 'with it' to do well in a Care Home.

Like your Mil, and many elderly people, I'm sure I would be fighting tooth and nail to stay in my own home, if I had any say in the matter. This, despite my experience with my own Mother having made me determined that my own children should never be in the same position as I was. I'm afraid that old age and looming loss of independence sometimes leads to a self-centredness borne of desperation, not deliberate selfishness. I hope you find a solution that accommodates you all, as much as is possible.

Ooh, sorry, that's long!

I would want to stay in my own home, I like to think I had made it a safe place to live and had all arrangements in place first though. I don't think many people would choose to move into a care home but sadly they just don't always think about the effect it has on families who are left in the caring role. I don't think it's being deliberately selfish though,.

I've changed my mind hugely since I've started dealing with an elderly parent. A lifetime of being the expert in their career, the go-to person in the family who will sort any problems. Now they can't always understand their own problems, let alone sort them. It's terrifically hard for them, and every bit of extra support is another reminder to them of their decline, quite apart from being another chipping away at their autonomy and ability to make choices. So although it's huge strain on me, I wouldn't ever regard them as selfish - their mental torment is far greater. And I realise that what I might have thought was best for them, isn't necessarily.

A care home isn't necessarily "somewhere comfortable and safe, where all your meals will be cooked and you'll have people to talk to". It may be "somewhere where I lose all my control, can't get up and go to bed when I want, can't choose what and when to eat, or even how warm I want my room, somewhere where I feel a complete waste of space because I'm not even looking after myself, and where I'm looked after by a whole lot of strangers who don't understand me, and who hurt me because they're trying to move me too fast".

Do you think your MIL would go into a home for respite - i.e. on a temporary basis while the electrical work was done?

My mum has recently entered a home on a respite basis. She was adamant she was only staying a week (we are on week 4) and that she will never stay permanently. I doubted whether she would get in the car with me to go to the home. I don't know if she will stay permanently but I hope so, she seems so much happier and calm but is still talking about when she leaves. The key thing that the home can provide is safety, entertainment/social activities and lovely food. Not all homes are the same and because my mum lives at a distance she did not see the home before she went there. I am still doing a huge amount of admin, sorting bills, arrangements for her house etc but I can plan this and not having to respond to every crisis. Homes (particularly good ones) are very very expensive and fortunately my mum has money to pay for a number of years. I suggest explore respite care if you can find a home your DH likes but be sure that it can be afforded for several years and be clear about what the advantages of a home over staying at home are.

LONG

This is my experiences of different care environments which may help or not to get an idea of what some places are or are not

Also if visiting a care home to look around, try and get chatting to other families with relatives and get the real lo down "if they were placing their loved one there right now, what would they want to know about the place that they know at this point?"

1. Supported mental health accommodation
2. Nursing home 1 / Nursing home 2
3. Home carers = Agency 1 / 2 / 3

Back when I was in my 20s I spent a month in mental health supported accommodation as an alternative to being admitted to hospital again. I hated it. However after the month they thought it was helpful and would be benefitical to me and so offered me a supported flat in the complex, I turned it down as I was determined to “show them”.

had my first stay for respite in a nursing home when I was 38 due to physical and neurological condition going downhill but not needing hospital as nothing they could do to help at that point only wait till attack passed which would be weeks and I needed full on care. It would be weeks and local hosptials would complain again about inapropriate admissions.

The social worker got me into the nearest care home and in total over the past 5 years I had 5 stays (3 in this place and 2 in another). My stays have been funded by social services.

Nursing home1 NH1) looking back was regimented, I was taken for a shower even though I didnt want one as all residents had a shower on Mondays. I verbally protested and was told I would feel better afterwards (I didnt as I had trouble getting warm for days and had finally warmed up and was now back to freezing after the shower)

They forgot to bring me a couple of meals to my room and the kitchen cooks was a couple of care assistants taken off the floor each day to cook for the residents. This was a large care provider and nursing home had about 60 residents. One of the evenings where I missed the evening meal, one of the carers was sent to make her speciality meal, I couldnt eat it – scrambled egg sandwiches -not toasted. Another evening a friend was coming to visit just before teatime so I asked him to bring in fish and chips from the chippy in the town, about 2 mins after he brought them in my tea arrived plated up with my fish and chips, literally 2 fishfingers and about 4 chips. Friend made sure someone brought me in food every evening.

The buzzers in the room went mostly unanswered and as I was mostly confined to bed due to condition at times when I needed staff, I ended up having to phone the outside line to ask them to come around to me. I had 4 different occassions where I woke up to people trying to get into the bed with me, now I wasnt in the EMI / dementia end of NH1, I was the far end away from it. I was also unable to move properly and heavily medicated esp at night. I also had another man that it felt like every single time I would be left alone in the room on the commode so I could do my things, he would open the door come in and stand and look at me and then walk off again, leaving the door wide open, id have to shout behind the care assistants to close it even when like that.

My meds are done up in a dossette by my local chemist, the chemist phoned me on mobile to query why there was extra x and y ordered, I said I didnt know as I was currently in x nursing home for respite. When I asked the main nurse on duty, I got patronised with “he shouldnt have been bothering you with that my dear”. The chemist communicates with me on a weekly basis as when he does up my dossette box there is more than 350 tablets involved so its quite complex to make sure I get the right treatments at the right time.

There was a petrol station up the road about 200 metres with a shop and cafe, I said to one of the staff that my friend was going to take me up there in wheelchair, the deputy manager nearly had a coronary and making a fuss about how I couldnt leave the premises in case anything happened to me and that maybe friend could get me whatever I wanted in shop. In her eyes it was 10 times worse that it was friend and not a family member. Im not a child. It was only my body wasnt working, I bit my tongue tho.

I got a telling off from a care assistant for sitting on a low windowsill along a corridor where I was trying to walk with frame, yeah I was making the place look untidy, apologies for being there.

I got wheeled a couple of times into the big living room, to be socialble, yeah all the wheelchairs facing Jeremy Kyle and other afternoon TV at full volume in case people in the town couldnt hear it

Nursing home (NH2) was a different kettle of fish. As I was respite I was in a room whereever there was space and spent both stays on dementia unit, one was 5 weeks and the other was 4 months.

I could have a shower whenever I wanted as long as there was enough staff on the floor for someone to help me.

Food was plentiful and very edible. They had a cook and assistant, who between them worked 8am – 6pm. There was also a cooked breakfast every morning.

They offered me the wifi code from the office as long as I didnt give it to staff who would be using net at work.

Buzzers were answered fast. They encouraged me to manage meds as best possible within their limits and liaised with others on my behalf when I couldnt.

When I wanted to go out for a while, I got a taxi into the local town and spent a few hours maybe having something to eat or a bit of shopping or people watching, I was encouraged to treat it like home. If I wanted to go out socially any night I was there, I just needed to ring the desk when close to NH2 to say I needed front door opened and depending on what time it was we might leave out certain meds or if I had alcoholtaken.

During this stay which was the 4 month one, I also moved house. The stay came after I was released from a 3 week hospital stay but was too unwell to go back home to a care package that had broken down so would have no support but was well enough to be discharged. I knew I had an end in sight and would be coming back to the community to live, that made things easier.

Home carers

Agency 1 – they took on the package with knowledge that 2 carers would be needed at short notice on many occassions due to changes in my condition, (which can change in literally 10 mins from functioning to fully dependant) however it turned out they needed a weeks notice when I was going to have a change and need 2 – it didnt work for this reason

Agency 2 – 2 carers at each call, (shudder) actually im still traumatised by these “carers” as not worthy of the name,

Agency 3 – brilliant, its 2 full years today and only 3 problems in that time, 2 by the same person on her first 2 days despite being experienced but 2 massive ones (fire risk, security breach) – not allowed back to me

and end of last year (cat got a tablet by mistake, cat had only started chewing it but it turned out to a med which is also used in veterinary medicine, cat is fine)

I agree with pp who suggested memory test to see if they still have capacity, then go from there.

Have pm'd you.

If your MIL has dementia you may find that a few months down the line she becomes more accepting of help a her condition worsens - if your DH can hold out this long. I went through about 18 months of my DM insisting that she could manage and that she did all her own cooking, cleaning (she didn't) and my dad refused to go against her wishes, even though he was frail himself. For us, by the end of summer last year, mom admitted that she didn't remember things, that she was no longer able to do household tasks and dad admitted he was struggling to cope. We got in daily carers, starting half hour each day, and moved over a couple of weeks to hourly twice per day. A hospital stay for DF during December has resulted in my organising a live in carer. I think my dad has understood that this was the means for him getting out of hospital. Mom varies between being friendly to her one moment and cross the next - however she is like that with anybody now. At the moment I see the live in carer as the only safe way they cAn stay in their home. It's early days for us and I am still doing all their admin, medical appts etc and expect to continue doing this but I've lost the constant worry which is s huge thing.

Regarding the electrics I've been told by 2 different electricians that if anybody other than my parents lived in their home they would recommend rewiring but given the age of my parents and the disruption this would cause they wouldn't recommend it.

What was helpful regarding safety in the house was a referral to occupational therapy as they organised additional rails up the stairs and outside, a gas switch off tap, fire service safety check. Panic alarm and other things.