DM and the difficult conversations

[PatricianOfAnkhMorpork]

After spending Christmas with DM I’ve realised how frail she has become, her involuntary twitching is now much worse, seriously unsteady on her feet and going deaf. She is “only” 75 but physically she is least 10 years older.

Yesterday she was in a bad car accident, she is fine but her car is written off. Every corner on the car had dings and scratches from pre accident.

I dealt with the police and insurers on her behalf and turned down the hire car her policy comes with. She doesn’t know this yet.

Tomorrow before I drive home I need to have the no more driving conversation with her. It will not go down well but I need some ideas on how to approach it.

I realise this is only the start of the difficult conversations that are coming in the next few months we will need to have about moving house, POA and god knows what else.

Any ideas on how to deal with the driving?

Pose it as questions;

Do you honestly feel safe to be driving?

Do you remember the knocks already on the car?

We had to have a similar conversation with my fil about 6 months ago. Luckily he was very good and honest about not feeling safe anymore so it was more us facilitating his decision.

Was the accident her fault? If so I would throw a bit of emotional blackmail... What if you had hit a child/killed someone

Approach it from a financial angle. How much will her premiums be now. (If you were really sneaky you could phone the insurance company to ask, letting slip your concerns about how high risk she was, perhaps asking if they would demand some form of driver safety test, though I have no idea what they might have in place.)

Then suggest that it would be financial madness to continue driving when the premiums/tax/depreciation/parking are so much more than the cost of taxis and on-line shopping. And sensible woman that she is....

Fault on the accident is a little unclear as a rogue transit was involved that was certainly being driven by a complete twat from what the witness has told us.

I’m betting she has no memory of the other knocks at all. They look like parking incidents to me.

Posing the questions though is a good idea, thank you

The cost of local taxis can compare well to the cost of maintaining and insuring a car for local journeys. " Take it easy, Mum, , you deserve to put your feet up and pat someone else take the strain".
Her diminishing driving ability? How would you feel after an accident?
Not her fault? Such awful tearaway drivers on the road these days, let the taxi driver have the hassle.And you don't have to find somewhere to park.

Emphasize how much can be delivered- food shopping, prescription meds, Amazon stuff.Going out can become what she does for fun.

And, if these don't work, I'm afraid there's no alternative but to contact the DVLA, inform them of her infirmity, and question whether it's still legal for her to drive. Harsh : but way better for her than accompanying her to court.

Unfortunately DM isn’t comfortably off, but not quite bad enough to qualify for any benefits. Taxis are out but she lives in an area that is still well served with buses and she has her bus pass. Town is less than 5 mins on the bus thankfully.

I can definitely go down the money route for some of it and try to appeal to her better nature.

Thanks for the replies, this feels like it’s going to be a hard and long journey for me and my DB.

What really worries me is the stuff she isn’t telling me. I’ve discovered today after speaking to a member of the wider family that she had a fall a few weeks ago and struggled to get up, DM hasn’t told me at all. Her washing machine has broken down which DM only admitted when I mentioned putting the tablecloth through. God only knows what else s going on.

I’m scared she isn’t coping and I don’t know how to deal with it.

OK that puts a new spin on it, falling could be a sign of blood pressure issues so make her a doctors appointment ASAP. This was what started our decision to stop fil driving, he was dizzy and easily confused and after having a very near miss with a bus and his daughter refusing to get in a car with him again he had to admit he wasn't up to it.

In terms of her not coping, speak to your GP and also social services. They will arrange assessments to be carried out for additional equipment to help her, and possibly even day centre places with transport to help her. There are also care agencies that can arrange social calls to take her out or welfare calls. Most of my calls are like this. Make the odd cup of tea or microwave meal and lots of chatting.

Thank you. I’m going call adult SS and AgeUK next week for advice.

I do know she has diabetes Type 2 and high cholesterol. Not aware of any other diagnosed problems but I’m guessing she isn’t mentioning anything when she sees the GP. I’ve got concerns on her memory too, she is adamant about something she did with me that we never did, got quite agitated about it. I know that isn’t a good sign

Doesn’t help that I live 4 hours away, DB is 2 hours away. With neither of us local it will make it much harder

If you go online you can do the power of attorney for money and health for about £80 court fees, it's worth getting in place as you cam then speak to her GP directly without her needing to be there if that makes sense

You could still write to her gp with your concerns and log accident etc.
Poa is really worthwhile.
Really worth speaking to social services emphasising how far away you are.

Do you know if she has had any investigation for anything like Parkinson's Disease?

If you go online you can do the power of attorney for money and health for about £80 court fees, it's worth getting in place as you cam then speak to her GP directly without her needing to be there if that makes sense

Doesn't power of attorney only kick in when the person you have it for is unable to make the decisions themselves?

I have appointed DH as my POA and no way could he go and speak to my GP

Yes POA only kicks in when you have lost capacity.

It's also not quite as simple as filling in a few forms over the internet and bam you have control over your mum. OPs mum would have to agree to it first.

Social services are unlikely to take a referral if consent hasn't be gained from OPs mum.

Ditto the GP will take the info but won't be able to speak to the OP.

To make the decisions yes but it also gives you the ability to advocate and discuss issues on her behalf. We have it in place for a family member as she cannot be relied upon to understand, partly age and partly a lack of education so she doesn't understand what is being said to her

I do think the place to start is talking to your mum. She might agree that she needs more help. What about moving near to you? My mum plans to move near me soon, I am so relieved. Writing to her GP with information is perfectly OK. She might agree to a POA, you never know.

wheres

A POA would make no difference in this situation. It would not be active. You can't advocate and discuss on behalf of someone who has the capacity to do it themselves. It doesn't work like that.

The conversation went better than I expected. She seems to have accepted it but looked like a scolded child. Was horrible and I know it’s going to get worse from here on in.

annandale no way she can move near me and I don’t want her to. She can’t afford to live down here, doesn’t know anyone here and I refuse to be the only one close enough to keep an eye on her.

hatgirl I’m not aware of any investigations for Parkinson’s or any type of dementia. I’m certain that she won’t have said anything to the GP or diabetic nurse about either the memory issues or the fall/unsteadiness.

I’m going to look into the POA further as we are going to need those eventually anyway. I’m just trying to find out what options we have then we can talk to her

Yes we have financial poa in place even though not needed yet. Mum won't entertain a health one unfortunately but at least has an advanced directive agreed with her GP about not having life-extending treatment.

Why not write to her GP explaining what has been going on. He/she can then call her in for a check up / blood tests etc.

Just to say that although a health and wellbeing PoA only applies when the person has lost capacity, a financial affairs and property one can be set up either to operate generally or only when capacity is lost.

My DM still has capacity but the finance/property PoA has been a godsend in terms of relieving her of the burden of dealing with finances - she has mild/moderate dementia which affects her ability to deal with figures particularly badly.

OP you might like to also drop into the 'caring for elderly parents' thread too, as there will be lots of MNers on there who have been through a similar experience and may have some advice. Sending in the meantime. www.mumsnet.com/Talk/elderly_parents/2895100-Caring-for-elderly-parents-Drop-in-for-support-hand-holding-and-whatever-you-need

DH was spared that very conversation when his DF had a "funny turn" which the GP said was a minor stroke. The GP told him not to drive, and his licence was duly sent off, never to be seen again (it upset him terribly for the rest of his life - another 3 years). We initially thought the GP was over-reacting but DFIL went downhill fast from there on -
in fact, DH thanked the GP for his prompt action. His car was also covered in small dings and scratches - he had no idea, apparently.

PIL refused to use taxis but for a while they used a dial-a-bus service which picked them up at their house and took them to the shops and back.

I don't envy you.

Thanks for the replies. Will take a look at the other board.