Different exams for boys and girls

[OrigamiYoda]

www.guardian.co.uk/education/2010/jun/18/boys-girls-different-gcse-course

What do you think ?

TheFallenMadonna, I think there are subjects where a practical element is involved and that this needs to be tested e.g. music, art, science etc. I never did art or music and I can no longer remember how we were examined for science. Couldn't they have a whole day for practical science exams? Driving tests are also practical. I think more time may be needed for practical science exams but I think they could still test these under examination conditions.

claig thinking about thefallenmadonna's point, people have to do a dissertation to obtain a degree. What do you think of that?

Absolutely brilliant posts, claig, agree with every word!

When you go for an interview with an employer and are tested, they mainly want to see how you cope on the day when they ask you questions. They don't want to see your essay book, they prefer to see what you can really do on the day. They take references into account, but they want to see how you perform in real time. It is different if you are an artist or photographer and have a portfolio to show them. But for technical roles, banking, economics etc. they will test you on the day.

Not all degrees include a dissertation. But, having said that, the majority of degrees as far as I know have some element of exams in them so if you can't do it at GCSE level you are going to be buggered at degree level...

But it's not the actual practical skills that are being measured as such (although there are marks for accurate recording etc) - it's the whole process.

I actually loathe coursework in its current form myself, and think it is open to all sorts of bad practice, but I don't think exams should be a test of knowledge only, nor do I think "an essay on the day" is a good way for all students to demonstrate their understanding of scientific ideas.

Or we can assume that students will continue to develop their skills in the years between GCSEs and the final year of their degrees...

yes a degree is different, It is usually at the end of your academic education. It is the final piece in the jigsaw. When I did my Masters etc., you only did teh dissertation if you had already passed the exams. It was only the final piece, the exams were still the most important aspect.

sas mmyuni

"sigh ISNT seriously i am talking about how the best teaching methods and learning environment for boys and girls differs (in general) for learning the same things."

Yes but what then of the people who do not conform to type (stereotype)?

We are talking about Science here remember. I actually wouldn;t think much of a Science degree that didn;t include a research project. I remember well arriving in the lab on the first day of my postgrad and feeling completely at sea. And I did do a research project.

Yes, maybe, but surely better to have those skills earlier.... On the idea of 'girls' coursework, 'boys' exams it is a crock of crap frankly and will just make girls second class citizens in the world of work and further education.

Of course the assessment should suit the subject - dp teaches video (amongst other things) so the assessment is part on group work (how project is put together and final result) and exams...

claig sorry but that's rubbish

You are saying that employers should be perfectly cheerful that they cannot rely on qualifications to actually mean anything, and that they should all perform lengthy tests themselves, and this is fine?

Should universities also be testing, on top of al the testing that the students have just had in their a-levels?

As at the moment, employers and universities are regularly coming forward and saying that the students do not understand quite basic stuff, can't write reports, can't spell etc etc.

It is the job of our schooling system to produce people who can do the things required, and to give them a piece of paper to show at what level they have achieved. It should not be necessary for employers and education establishments to apply rigorous testing as they cannot put any faith in the pieces of paper. What then is the point of the pieces of paper?

Not all sciences have practical elements e.g. maths. But yes I agree that there are subjects such as science, computing, art, woodwork, music etc. that need to be examined in different ways. How did they examine these subjects before coursework became the norm?

We are getting onto a compltely different topic though.

This is about, should there be different exams for boys and girls, and while there are still people saying yes, it seems a shame to move away from that onto something completely different.

I did coursework and practical exams for my Science A levels in 1989.

Struggling to think of any other sciences that don;t have a practical element to them...

x-posts, and knuckles duly rapped!

"It is the job of our schooling system to produce people who can do the things required, and to give them a piece of paper to show at what level they have achieved. It should not be necessary for employers and education establishments to apply rigorous testing as they cannot put any faith in the pieces of paper. What then is the point of the pieces of paper?"

exactly right and that is exactly what is not happening and why Imperial College and many others are now setting their own entrance tests because they do not trust the inflated grades that everybody now has. The PC progressive planners have let children, employers and universities down. It will all now be slowly rolled back and hopefully there will be a point to the pieces of paper again.

I think they always had coursework, it just wasn't called coursework. In woodwork eg you would have done a "project" and designed something, built it, written it all up, presented the final piece.

Now that's an interesting problem to tailor teaching styles for the majority or to do it on an individual basis. I think it should be a bit of both obviously teaching on an individual basis alone can't happen too many pupils not enough teachers and not enough time for that to ever work that technique is normally used for small groups.

But then teaching without taking note of the individuals who may need different techniques would be unfair to those students also.

Anyway if they were to do different teaching styles it is the way they teach boys that would change not girls they would still be the same as it is now and in general they fair better.

I don't like the idea of different 2 ways to pass because as others have said in peoples mind they may begin to favour one over the other. I think the teaching styles should change instead for boys but that both boys and girls should do the same exams and coursework.

Coursework i feel is important, there are times in the workplace where you have to do reports etc and even universities normally you are expected to do dissertation/research projects.

I did the 2nd year of GCSEs and the English dept at my all-girl school decided to try this new 100%-coursework syllabus for lang and lit.

After 2 years of it they were practically having nervous breakdowns from the hassle of getting 15 to 20 pieces of coursework off 80 teenagers. And this was in a boarding school so we were a captive audience!

No re-drafting allowed in those days, and we had to do 3 pieces under timed conditions. Fairly sensible for English, but would have been a nightmare if they'd done it for every subject, especially with a bunch of perfectionist desperate-to-please girls who would have stressed solidly for 2 years.

I'd have hated the idea of choosing a syllabus as the majority would probably have gone for the other option - even with all girls it was very clear that maths etc was the uncool option that was only socially acceptable for the Chinese...

I don;t know that blaming "PC" is right.

I thought it was the result of successive govts, all keen to show year on year "improvements" in standards. And that the tinkering was to improve marks to make the govt look good, rather than to adhere to some "PC agenda" which apparently wants to get all the boys and do them down in whetever ways it can think of.

Most of the politicians and civil servants are boys, I find it hard to believe they are collectively working towards some secretive feminist agenda.

No that "doing boys down" is a feminist agenda, I was attempting to reflect some of the more paranoid takes on this stuff that you see in the press.

TFM can you remember what form the practical exams took? Was it coursework over the entire year or was it a one week exam or something like that?

ISNT I agreee with you that there should be one exam for all, otherwise girls will be encouraged to do coursework and that will harm them in the real world, because coursework is not seen as having as much worth as non-coursework exams. The thing is that we are now moving slowly towards a two-tier system whether we want it or not and this is because of the evident weaknesses of coursework etc. So it is important to ensure that we get one good quality exam system, so that people are not led up the garden path to carry out coursework.

This is a hoorrific proposal!

The girls courses will be valued less than the boys.