Are private school parents expected to help with reading etc?

[mrsshackleton]

I'm thinking about moving dd1 from a state primary to a private prep at the beginning of Yr 2. Dd2 would start reception at the same time.

However, I'm put off by reading in the Good Schools Guid that parents help out a lot with sport, reading etc.

Surely a big plus point of private schools is that they don't have to rely on parents help to get the children reading? It's one of my main problems with dd1's school - they're learning to read at a snail's pace and forever badgering us to come in, which if you work or have younger children is not possible. Reading with your children at home is different, of course. As is helping out with the school in some way ie school fair, though I don't think any parent should be pressured to participate to ensure their dcs have a good education.

Anyway before I embark on this costly path I'd like to know how much parents are expected to be unpaid teachers at private schools.

Sorry, I meant without the help of unpaid and untrained parents

MrsS - What I found at our original ('Outstanding') infant school is that the teachers quickly worked out which children were getting lots of support and encouragement with reading at home with parents, and then those children DIDN'T get any (or just the bare minimum) support at school. I went in as a parent helper with reading. The focus was put on the kids whose parents did nothing at home. This was one if the issues I had with the state system - it was all about getting all children to a satisfactory level. If your child happened to be almost at that satisfactory level then there was a tendency to 'leave them to it'.

I can understand the strategy for a class of 30, but it's still a bit unfair on the more able children. DS1 was very, very bored.

By comparison, their current prep school has classes of just 16 and every child has an individual reading plan which is tailored to their interests and abilities.

I presume that they do guided reading and other forms of literacy learning in class? And the parent volunteers are only listening to readers, not actually teaching lessons? If that is so, I would far rather my child was practising skills with a parent volunteer while the trained, qualified teacher was getting on with teaching. It is NOT a good use of a teacher's time to listen to reading every day, as some people seem to want.

It's like learning to drive. You have a lesson, then you go out and practise what you've learnt with your dad sitting beside you.

Seeker - that IS true, and a sensible way of explaining the role of helpers.

I'm always a bit at people who say things like "the school didn't teach her to read"

NO. . .they do not expect any help. States schools always want help but preps schools dont. My son is at a preps schools and you dont have to help in any way at all.. Afterall you are paying a hell of a lot of money. . .so why should you all have to help them out? This is what i like about private schools. . . you can get involved in some school activities but you dont have to . Plus, any trips go on the school bill and my Ex pays , so i dont have to dip into my very small purse and fork out. !!

DC's prep school don't ask for help within the classroom. Young children are listened to every day by the army of TAs.

That said, it does use parental help for a lot of other things. Fund raising! Trips. Fun days. They also call upon the expertise of the parents whenever they can - everyhting from scenery painting to rugby coaching to getting access to television studios etc. Lots of parents give a lot of time. But you don't have to if you work, or have younger kids, or just don't want to. I've always dipped in and out, deadlines permitting.

Conversly, I volunteer at my local primary school, where they need as much help in the classroom as they can get. I started out as a listener and am now the literacy co ordinator. LOL.

DD has a teacher and two teaching assistants for 16 pupils so they don't need any help.

I have never been asked to do anything at my DCs school that didn't involve sitting in the audience and clapping at the end. Oh except I man a stall at the school fair every year. I was asked to help at cricket and rugby teas but had to decline.

mrsshackleton - you are expected to listen to them read and supervise homework. Our DS have been at 2 different Prep schools and it was obligatory and have no objection to that.

At the really pushy top league table Prep schools parents are intensely competitive keen to be involved in reading and homework. Some top schools expect a child to be at least 2 years ahead of their actual age in their reading age by the time they reach age 8. That can only be achieved by reading a lot at home. The teachers and TA do not have time. Reading ability (assuming no dyslexia) is really about the sheer volume of words that a child has read by a certain age.

However, I really object to having to do anything else. We refuse to be involved in sport, fund raising, drama projects, school trips, etc. Just go to an occassional home match and a play a performance.

My view, like yours, is that we are paying and for that we expect some service. In fact we just had to have very firm words with DSs Prep telling them the demands they (and especially the PTA) were making on working parents time was too much.

Are they demands though BeenBeeta? Or requests?

We are constantly being asked to give money, man stalls, make bacon sandwiches, find outfits, help set up, help clear away...but no one has to. They just requests. And the usual suspects end up doing it all.

As I say, I dip in and out. I don't feel pressure or guilt.

Bottom line is be prepared to supervise and do reading at home but not at school unless you are getting a significant fee reduction for helping out. I know one Prep school that expects parental involvement in the classroom but the fees are very very low indeed.

A lot of Prep schools do fee reductions for teachcers and people who work in the school office etc so I do not see why parents who pay full fees should be expected to work for nothing at the school on top of that.

And I msut say, that the way parents will give of their time and money is in direct contrast to the local primary school where the parents wont do anything.

Litchick - ours are usually 'requests', but I must say I find that some of the PTA members get very shirty about people not 'helping'!

For example recently our PTA asked for suggestions about how to spend some of the funds raised, so our class rep e-mailed us all and we submitted ideas (like new equipment, after-school activity materials etc), which she duly passed on.
Then suddenly there was this long e-mail from the PTA committee basically saying if people expected things like these to happen then perhaps they'd like to volunteer, and how the same people always did everything, and how hard it was... It was a completely out-of-proportion response!

I help when I can, with what I enjoy (music concerts, book club etc) but cake-baking and cricket teas leave me cold I'm afraid....

Interesting you help out at the school that needs it, litchick.

I was thinking if I do move dd I will probably carry on doing some volunteering as and when it's possible at her current school as that's where they need it. My worry is that a school charging £4k a term is saying it can't teach the children without parents coming in and helping out is not worth the money,

MrsS - none of the prep schools round these parts expect/want parents in the classrooms.

As others have said they have many teaching assistants and also we have Norland college nearby so lots of them seem to be around doing training as well.

"And I msut say, that the way parents will give of their time and money is in direct contrast to the local primary school where the parents wont do anything."

Oh, I know! Those people just won't to anything to help themselves, will they!

Whatever kind of school my sons go to I'll help, support them and the school as much as I can, in whatever way they want me to.

'They shouldn't rely on unpaid parents to get them reading' Mrs Shackleton, you said something like this!
In the classroom, I absolutely agree. But at home, yes. It's sad and unfair.

I like going into school to help, but also to get a measure of what's going on, a little snoop and to make sure I know who the important people are!

Why would you NOT want to read with your child or help your child with reading at home ?

I know some parents work long hours but hearing your child read is hardly taxing.
Doesn't matter whether it's state or private tbh. I accept that the onus is far less on parent support in private schools but cannot see why you would want to opt out of supporting your child.

Or have I got the wrong end of the stick?

Sorry - poor choice of words there - didn't mean to imply that you don't support your child - of course you do. I am guessing you mean that there is more time and support in a private school to ensure that children learn without having to have lots of additional input at home.

Jollypirate. You have got the wrong end of the stick. I keep repeating

I am happy to help my child read at home, I enjoy it

I am sad that my dd's school is constantly badgering parents to come in to hear ALL the children read, to basically be unpaid TAs.
I would expect a private school to have enough real TAs and small enough classes that this wasn't necessary.

What makes me really sad is there are many schools like the one litchick volunteers at where the parents will not get involved. How are the children ever expected to get to a decent standard of literacy if they don't read at home and the school is relying on non-existent volunteers to get them reading at school?

Do I make myself clear now?

DS used to go to a private school, I was never asked to participate in the teaching. There were mothers who were very involved in fundraising but I never participated on that and never felt forced to do it.

Now with regards to fundraising... things were different to fundraising in DS' new state school. Where in DS' new state school we are constantly bombarded with small demands like baking buns, help with selling these tickets, bla bla blah. At private school it was more like, who wants to sponsor the flowers, get a full table in such event, etc. (I particularly remember the sponsorship of the flowers at that event... only £700! . Obviously I didn't sponsorise them and I'm confident nobody noticed )

Think the OP has already made it clear that fully supports doing reading/homework at home.. think she is keen to find out if parental support in the classroom is as critical to success in private sector as it appears to be in state. (To which the answer seems to be 'no')

oops - X-posted with MrsS!

DS old school had a ratio of 3 children per adult. Meaning a small class of 10-12, with a teacher and 2-3 teaching assistants. But I guess this was only so because the school aslo trained teachers and the trainnees practiced in the school.

Reading was awesome, DS was reading in reception what his classmates are now reading at the end of Year 2. Having said that, DS was sent home everyday with a book to read, while now he is only sent with one a week.

We are not asked to help, but lots of parents do offer (I read one to one with children from my son's class) because they can and want to. I currently don't work, so have the time and really enjoy it. But it is not "expected" in any way. When/if I return to work later this year, then I will have to drop that I suspect, and the school will be completely understanding about it.

This is at a private prep by the way. Very active PTA, so lots of parental contribution that way too.

mrsshackleton - at £4k per term I would agree with you. No way would I be doing anything in the school at that price. We pay £2.8k a term and do nothing. We did look at one Prep that was £5k a term but that was the top boarding Prep in the country so absolutely no parental involvement at all. Frankly, I would look somewhere else. That is beyond a joke.

Maybe a Primary school needs parental involvement in the classroom but not Prep schools. More especially when so often now both parents have to work to pay fees.

The annoying thing is that the unwritten 'assumption' here (mostly by the busy body parents on the PTA) is that there is a SAHM who can just drop everything and go to work for nothing in the school and pay full fees as well. DW gets incredibly annoyed by this attitude - especially when it is girls Prep school.